The journey from there to here

So, Marvin Cooley's evil twin is back in full force, in one breath decrying cults and in the other trying to form a cult himself by proclaiming that only HIS word stands as the word of God, and that everyone else, even Christ Himself, is suspect in their teaching.

He believes that Christians do not need to lead a good life. That they can do whatever they want and treat other people like garbage, and that they will get to heaven, and God will smile and say it's all good. But the phrase "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven" appears nowhere in the Bible and is the world's biggest cop out for a church that won't even TRY.

Ironically enough, in America, there are many that echo his belief, that if you pray to God once for forgiveness, it doesn't matter what you do with the rest of your life. Oddly, those are the same people trying to put the Ten Commandments in every courthouse and public square and to institute school led prayer and the teaching of intelligent design and abstinence only education in every public school. So while this individual may be unique in Africa, he's got a lot of company in the US.

But the truth is, the Bible doesn't say that salvation comes only by a simple prayer. It has lots to say about being made a new creature, about salvation being evident through works, about running the race. And in fact, what the good old Baptist preacher won't tell you is that it wasn't homosexual sex that did Sodom in, it was "pride and excess of food while the poor and needy suffered outside her door" (Ezekial 16:49). Now I'm no genius here, but I'm thinking if being greedy, selfish dillweeds was enough to make God wipe out a city, seems to me he's not going to be crazy about alleged Christians continuing the practice, no matter how pure the gold is on the cross around their neck. It also seems to me that living that way, might, just MIGHT tick Him off and have the reverse effect.

Real Christian living is not expressed through bumper sticker sayings or cop outs. I'd tell him this on his thread, but he's deleting at a furious pace so it won't likely remain. Real Christian living is expressed in LIVING as Christ did while He was on earth. No, nobody can expect to be perfect. But they SHOULD expect to try and to somehow evidence SOME change in their life!


Comments (Page 1)
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on Nov 10, 2007
I heard it said before, and I put it in my own blog, but it bears repeating.

If you, as a Christian, are not seeing major life change from before you were a Christian, if you are maintaining a pattern of sin in your life, you don't believe in God.
on Nov 10, 2007
If you, as a Christian, are not seeing major life change from before you were a Christian, if you are maintaining a pattern of sin in your life, you don't believe in God.


If a sinner were drawn by the Father to the Son, having been translated out of the kingdom of darkness, into the light of God's dear son, only to be cast away like chaff into the furnace because one were percieved to have not been family by the fact of one's inability to be as perfect as men who imagine themselves to be lesser sinners. Surely such men who teach these things are worse sinners still to make fun of the grace of God, which can take a broken life and slowly in the time that is appointed by the hand of God to restore, to rebuild what cannot be done in any of the Scientific laboratories of the world. If God has justified who are you to disagree with God?

Ye err not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of GOD.


Love,
.A.
on Nov 10, 2007
if you are maintaining a pattern of sin in your life, you don't believe in God.





Remaining in a pattern of sin is a deliberate separating yourself from God as our Ultimate End. Apoc. 1:11. So, yes, Jythier you've pretty much nailed it. Remaining in a pattern of sin also shows that you don't don't love Him....for Christ said, if you love me, keep My commandments.

When someone sins, they consciously and freely transgress the law of God, an express opposition to and a contempt of the DIvine Will.

Sin is the greatest of evils becasue it deprives God of the honor due Him and hinders man's attainment of his eternal destiny.
on Nov 11, 2007
What many people seem to not know (or forget) is Repentance doesn't mean "to ask forgiveness" or even to "forgive", repentance means "a change of heart". While it's true that Christ will forgive the sins of those who accept His atonement, that forgiveness comes with "repentance", not just expecting Him to do it.
on Nov 11, 2007
What many people seem to not know (or forget) is Repentance doesn't mean "to ask forgiveness" or even to "forgive", repentance means "a change of heart". While it's true that Christ will forgive the sins of those who accept His atonement, that forgiveness comes with "repentance", not just expecting Him to do it.


THANK YOU, Para!

Aeryck's condemned me to Hell for not believing that Christians can live any way they want to...lol! I guess "judge not, lest ye be judged" doesn't apply either.

According to Aeryck, God must be a monumental fool, writing all of those words and having them mean nothing when he simply could have written out a 3 page tract and saved a lot of scribes a BOATLOAD of time!
on Nov 11, 2007
The fact is, we aren't perfect, we are just forgiven. But using that as an ideology to allow yourself to live deliberately against God is demeaning to the rest of us who made a mistake and need to remember that we really aren't perfect, we are just forgiven, and making mistakes is okay, as long as there is repentance.
on Nov 11, 2007
The fact is, we aren't perfect, we are just forgiven. But using that as an ideology to allow yourself to live deliberately against God is demeaning to the rest of us who made a mistake and need to remember that we really aren't perfect, we are just forgiven, and making mistakes is okay, as long as there is repentance.


True, jythier. Bumper sticker theology, though, should never substitute for the real thing.

Here's the question, though: Are you comfortable enough with that answer to give it when you stand before God on judgment? Do you really think He's gonna be keen on: Hey, I was waiting on your son to bail me out? Or do you think He wants to see genuine effort on our part, even though we have failings?
on Nov 11, 2007
I know I'm not in a very good place right now if God decided to take me. I would have a lot of explaining to do, and I'm pretty sure sidestepping the question wouldn't be an option at that point.
on Nov 12, 2007
making mistakes is okay, as long as there is repentance.


True enough as long as you don't repeat the mistakes...if your attitude is such that it is okay to make this mistake now and repent later...well...that ain't the way it works.

I would have a lot of explaining to do


I think instead that you will have a lot of explaining given to you.
on Nov 12, 2007
What many people seem to not know (or forget) is Repentance doesn't mean "to ask forgiveness" or even to "forgive", repentance means "a change of heart". While it's true that Christ will forgive the sins of those who accept His atonement, that forgiveness comes with "repentance", not just expecting Him to do it.


Well said.

There certainly is a process that one goes through from, as Jythier says, "maintaining a pattern of sin" to your saying here, a "change of heart".

First, there is no sin hidden from Almighty and All-Merciful God. He will forgive any and all sin as long as we cooperate with His grace.

There are mental, heartfelt steps that we must go through to reeive forgiveness. First, recognize our sins....examine the offense against God's commandments. Once, that's done, we must have contrition or sorrow, a hatred of sin and a true grief of having committed them and offended God....with a firm purpose of sinning no more.

Re: our sorrow for our sins: God who sees into our hearts and knows the state of our souls blackened by the stain of sin, knows if we are truly sorry, repentant, or if we are only pretending that the sorrow is not interior, only exterior.

We must be sorry for our sins on account of knowing it's displeasing to to God or as Catholics believe, because we have fear the loss of Heaven by it. If we are sorry for our sin only becasue of some natural motive, then our sorrow is not the right kind for God's forgiveness. If a man is sorry for stealing, committing adultery only becasue he got caught and had to go to prison or lost his wife for it, then his sorrow would only be natural...not "supernatural" sorrow. If we are sorry for having offended God on account of His own Infinite Goodness, our contrition or sorrow is said to be perfect.

We must have true sorrow becasue these are sins against God --things forbidden by Him and worthy of His punishment.

on Nov 12, 2007
Another thing that is bumper sticker statement forgets is, when we sin it isn't always just Christ we hurt. If our sin costs or hurts someone else, then we must do what we can to make restitution to them. Sometimes that is just a matter of sincere apology and seeking their forgiveness, but could also mean paying them back or doing something to "make it up to them" as best we can.

I'm not sure if the words "just" and "forgiven" should be put together..
on Nov 12, 2007
Another thing that is bumper sticker statement forgets is, when we sin it isn't always just Christ we hurt. If our sin costs or hurts someone else, then we must do what we can to make restitution to them. Sometimes that is just a matter of sincere apology and seeking their forgiveness, but could also mean paying them back or doing something to "make it up to them" as best we can.


Oh, ya, so true. And this can be a really tough one to live out. Think of the Lord's Prayer. "..and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."
on Nov 12, 2007
"I'm not sure if the words "just" and "forgiven" should be put together.. "

Good point.
on Nov 12, 2007
I think this saying is more directed to those who call Christians un-Christian or hypocrites when they slip.  We aren't perfect and we do make mistakes.  I know I fall short all the time but that shouldn't be a judgement on Christianity, that is about me. 
on Nov 12, 2007

Jesus,

Please do not patronize my blog again. I deleted your response because I frankly don't want to converse with you.

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