I think this saying is more directed to those who call Christians un-Christian or hypocrites when they slip.

No, Loca, the fact is, it is usually directed by people who make a habit out of constantly hurting other people and lying to/about them that have no conscience about it whatsoever.

The fact is, while Christians do slip from time to time, MOST "Christians" seem content to stay in their slipped state using stupid sayings like this to rationalize the fact that they will not even TRY to be more Christlike.

I wanted to see what lil' Jesus said.

But they SHOULD expect to try and to somehow evidence SOME change in their life!

Gid,

For by grace (God's) are ye saved (past tense) through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Eph 2:8-10)

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
(Tit 2:14)

If the changes were left entirely up to us to do, all on our own steam, then we might as well delete these passages from the Bible.

Good trees bare good fruit, but they do not grow over night. The Father prunes them and it takes longer for some than others, it really depends on the depths of degredation and depravity a soul has sunk to before the prodigal son, turns back to His Father.

.A.

Have I said any different Aryck? No, I have not. Yet you've branded me a heretic and condemned me to Hell, something that is not your place to do.

Yes, Christians will mess up, Aeryck. We don't disagree there, and that was not my point. However, when they excuse their mistakes with bumper sticker theology, when they do not even TRY to be more conformed to the image of Christ, what does it say about their faith?

The Bible calls for a living faith, not a dead faith, Aeryck. Why are we called to go and make disciples? Why are we called to witness? Because there are things that we were meant to do as faithful Christians. Do we HAVE to do them? Not at all. But I have a hard time believing someone truly loves God when they don't even WANT to do His will

SC,

It was nothing, just an ad hominem attack like you'd expect from our illegal alien cabbie!

Terrific explaination of how it should be to be a Christian Gid, eye opening for me anyhow.

Truly do as I did {Jesus talking} not what you think I did.

But if you delete them all, I won't be able to laugh at his expense!

Yes, I understand. This is still largely problematic because you are emphasizing the old system of religion and not the life of the Spirit and the new creation. You make it very black and white, very monotone, when in point of fact the entire work of salvation is credited not to our response but to the completed work of Christ.

You accuse me of judging you, yet you are the one who has set yourself up as the judge. It is this outspoken condemnation of those who are justified by God, who might not be living the way that you believe is right, but who are still within the boundaries of His love and mercy, that brought me to object to your hard words.

Do you not know that even those who have lived so shamefully will appear before the seat of Christ for rewards and though they may not have measured up to your standard they stand or fall because of the only righteous judge, who judges justly, because He knew no sin, but ours. Don't you know that these same one's who you are firing salvos for find grace and forgiveness by which they eventually change and are granted rewards, some though who even do not co-operate know grace because Scripture clearly states that they will have their straw works burned up and their souls will not be damned but their souls will be saved. Knowing this, you aught to not launch out so heavily upon Christians who fail here, for it is the Lord who has justified them (as if they never sinned), it is He who sanctifies them, it is he who glorifies them.

My only objection has been the way you have placed the law over the heads of Christians as if there were some solution offered in the law, when the law has taught us of a better way, a way of the life in the Spirit. This grace is for believers and it does mean that we need to back off and not get so worked up about the failures we see.

When Jimmy Swaggart fell so hard, it was very embarrassing for those who emphasize their part as most important. They did not look carefully at the ways that God works in each persons life. So many of us fail to see that God sometimes has to let a man fall, to wrest out of his heart, or her heart things that we looking from the outside judge in fury but later on when they are restored by Christ, lose the blessing that He has put on thier lives. All I am saying to you is that you have raised the law (love God and love thy neighbour) and forgotten that the purpose of the law is in fact to cause sin to increase and missed the matter of the grace abounding.

Paul in Romans 2:1 is most clear about us not doing this, for we are not less sinful than they are. Those who do not live right. If they fail it is before them and not before us that this failure should be judged. We cannot judge, if we do then we are at war with God. This is why I am at war with you. You have launched out with the law, but are you perfect that you fully keep the law. No.

Brother Gid, you will have learn to understand that it is mercy that truimphs over judgment.

You took my vulnerabilities and apologies and you turned on me, this is something that Christians should not do to each other, and to do it so publically is what I also find saddening. You do not yet know me and yet you presume to know me, I would be most happy if you were lest down on me all the time and actually took the time to consider why I have made a strong case against you for teaching what the Pharisees taught and not the life of the Spirit. It is not something you can learn over night, but to chasten weak believers is to chasten Christ publically. I object to your judgments and am not going to discuss this with you again. I hope you will come to you senses and leave this well alone.

Sincerely,
.A.

Since I DON'T teach what the Pharisees taught, aeryk, you have no case.

Do you even see the irony of your post? You have judged me wholly and thoroughly, yet you ask me not to judge you. You have judged others as well. You claim (and rightly so) that God is a God of grace, yet you claim that grace does not extend to those who believe differently.

I WANT to have a reasonable conversation with you, Aeryck, but as long as you've condemned me before I walk in the door, I don't see how that's possible!

Gid, you may say you don't but you have raised the law over others, you should only raise the cross, as Moses raised the serpent in the desert. (John 3)

.A.

Oh Gid,
You are playing now. You smashed down the door of trust when you took my apology and went public. There is where you have crushed my trust.



Of course, God's grace does not extend to ALL men. Some men will not come to Christ EVER. They are what the Bible calls 'reprobate'. They seek justification through their own merit as Cain did who slew his own brother.



Your admission is good enough for me. I am ready to lay down my sword.

.A.

No, aeryck, I have not. That is what YOU say i have said, not at all what I SAID.

Do you see the irony of this thread?

Let me love you brother,
.A.

uh, what apology? I have not received a private apology. If you sent one to my gmail account, that was stolen months ago. I have had nothing to go public WITH!

Seriously, I have no clue what you are talking about.

Let's approach this really quickly, I am running out of time here.

Is a Christian obligated to obey the first commandment, namely 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God........and thy neighbour as thyself.' ??

Or, do you believe in another way of life ?


.A.

Well, it depends what you mean by "Obligated". Can a Christian get to heaven without doing these things? Yes. What puzzles me, however, is how anyone would claim to love Christ and not want to do these things by their very nature.

It's not about being bound by law, but being bondservants (Paul's words, not mine), through a willing commitment to Christ.

Now a question for you: Was Jesus lying in Matthew 25:31-46, or did Matthew not record it right? Because in the end of that passage, Jesus makes it abundantly clear that He does pay attention to our actions on earth.

Another question: Why does Paul repeatedly exhort us too run the race?

I could go on with this all day, Aeryck. The truth is that Christians should do good works not out of compulsion or a sense of duty, but out of a LOVE for God and a desire to do as He would have us do. If that desire is missing, there are very good reasons to question that individual's claim to be a Christian.