The journey from there to here

Note: While I shied away from religious topics for much of my time on JU, I believe that enough time has passed that readers know me well enough that I feel a little more secure in sharing my beliefs.

I am what is known as a "grace only" Christian. I believe we are sinners, saved by grace through faith, and that works on our part will not get us to heaven. As I have examined what that belief means, I have had to wrestle with a startling inconsistency among many Christians who hold the same belief as I do. I call it "the paradox of the grace only Christian", and I will explain it as clearly as I can.

Church A decrees that "you cannot be saved by faith alone; you must have works to save you". Church B claims that "we believe in Jesus Christ as expressed in the Bible, but we also believe there are other writings that bear equal inspiration". Church C says "we believe you are saved by grace through faith, and not through your own works. Church C will typically claim that members of churches A and B are not saved.

By doing so, church C is effectively placing shackles on God's grace. While proclaiming it to be limitless, and using it to excuse their own infallibility, they fail to recognize that churches A and B, while erroneous in their doctrine, may well be recipients of the same grace that church C claims as the basis for its own salvation. I contend that a grace great enough to cover my own shortcomings may well be great enough to cover that of others who do not believe exactly as I do.

So why do I consider myself an evangelical? Simple answer, really: Because I do not know where that line begins or ends. I believe there is a heaven, and I believe there is a hell, but I am the gatekeeper of neither. I am absolutely, positively sure that I know what the Bible says must be done to get to heaven; but, frankly, I'm not sure what all it takes to stay out of Hell, although I certainly know what kinds of actions one could perform to get there.

The paradox of the grace only Christian is an issue that I feel needs to be addressed among the churches that profess it. Otherwise, they're teaching a doctrine of works by demanding that followers adhere to their definition of grace rather than the Bible's.

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Comments (Page 1)
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on Jun 10, 2006
So what is it about church B that you find so incompatible with "grace only"? Is it pride that makes people think they can set limits on what God can do? Nowhere in Church B's tenents are beliefs that are incompatible with grace only. I seem to remember them saying it is only through Christ that we can be saved.
on Jun 10, 2006
I rarely post on religious topics, but I respect you and I know your blogs are pretty clean....no flaming here.
on Jun 10, 2006
So what is it about church B that you find so incompatible with "grace only"? Is it pride that makes people think they can set limits on what God can do? Nowhere in Church B's tenents are beliefs that are incompatible with grace only. I seem to remember them saying it is only through Christ that we can be saved.


I am completely reserving judgement; that is my point. In fact, just for the record, it is my PERSONAL contention that the LDS church, for instance, is actually a "grace only" church, even though many bishops and elders might protest that fact, and almost every evangelist would. That's actually one of the reasons I wrote this article; I think that unless we can specifically refute a church's teachings, we would be well to consider that what we perceive to be errant teaching may well fall under the blanket of grace with which we cloak ourselves so readily.
on Jun 10, 2006
(in other words, I find NOTHING in LDS doctrine incompatible with "grace only" they just don't self identify as such, as the groups that I am referencing in this article do. Even though I do not believe in LDS doctrine, I DO essentially agree that it is a "grace only" doctrine. But that's a debate for another thread, and one I'd rather see para or singr do, because they'd do it more justice).
on Jun 10, 2006
Church C will typically claim that members of churches A and B are not saved.

well could this be because if you believe that works will save you or following another and believing this other person's writings are just as valid, you are not depending on the sufficiency of Christ and HE alone?

I believe the same thing that gets us into heaven keeps us out of hell. Once we've come to the saving knowledge of JC we have passed from death to life.

Funny I've been in all three churches....A, B and C and I do understand exactly what you are talking about.

BTW what is your definition of Grace?
on Jun 10, 2006
BTW what is your definition of Grace?


undeserved favor.


well could this be because if you believe that works will save you or following another and believing this other person's writings are just as valid, you are not depending on the sufficiency of Christ and HE alone?


I won't dispute that possibility, KFC. But I do believe we need to be VERY careful when making certain determinations prematurely.

To those who trust in salvation by works, I think a far better strategy would be to show them that they are unnecessarily burdening themselves rather than attach labels professing to know certain things we don't.


I do hope both of you understand I'm asking questions, not answering them. I appreciate your contribution to this discussion.
on Jun 10, 2006
I agree with your definition but I personally don't think it applies to salvation for all. If that were the case, then all would be saved and there would be no reason to have a hell.

I believe we all are under God's grace in the fact that we are allowed to live. We are sinners and God has not zapped us yet. He knew from the foundations of the world what we would be like. All that we are able to do falls under the grace of God.

As far as God's grace in salvation I do believe in limited atonement, and can see see that all thru scripture. It's called election. I'm studying Romans right now and it's clear to me that this is ALL about God and NOT about me. It's all for his purpose and will.

I am so thankful for the grace of God and sometimes it's overwhelming to think that he's chosen to give me that grace. I really don't feel I deserve this and still wonder why he picked me.

Maybe because I am so grateful, I like to share Him with others so much. I want to be that 10th leper I guess. Thanking Him by sharing Him with others. He's a great God.

I've been thinking of blogging about the Prodigal. It's been really speaking to me lately. The whole time the Prodigal was being a Prodigal....he never stopped being a son. He never lost his position in the family. That is made so clear in the story. How great is that?

I'm asking questions, not answering them


why not? Ooops sorry.

on Jun 10, 2006

(in other words, I find NOTHING in LDS doctrine incompatible with "grace only" they just don't self identify as such, as the groups that I am referencing in this article do. Even though I do not believe in LDS doctrine, I DO essentially agree that it is a "grace only" doctrine. But that's a debate for another thread, and one I'd rather see para or singr do, because they'd do it more justice).

You are a good man.  Hopefully you will win in November.  I do like your logic.  And will leave it at that.

on Jun 10, 2006
Exellent explanation Gid!!

I have no problem with "Grace Only" doctrine. I am a believer in Saved by Grace, Judged by Works". Nothing we do for ourselves will save us, only Christ's atonement can do that. He alone is qualified to take the sins from anyone upon himself.

Hoever, the Book of Revelation says that we are judged according to our works. John taught that "faith without works is dead"... Both being true, works can't be dismissed very easily. Works are not what save us in the least degree, but they are our way of testifying to each other and Our Heavenly Father of our appreciation for our salvation and our willingness to turn our lives over to Christ.
on Jun 10, 2006
Churches A,B,C,D,E,F..... are exactly why I don't believe anyone really has it all exactly right. The minds of people have influenced religion as long as religion has existed. The very best one can do is try to come to some kind of understanding of God as best they can and try their best to be a "good person" according to what they believe.

Every major religion in the world has some basic common beliefs regarding good and evil, how to treat others and how not to treat others. I think the real truth may well be glimpsed by examining these.
on Jun 10, 2006

Gid, please don't take offense at this, because none is meant - and I am also saying it to you because I think that you have a sense of humor.

I sometimes think it's funny to watch some Christians tie themselves up into knots about what this or that or the other means and how they should best apply it to their daily lives.  I often wonder if god isn't observing all this stuff that's done in his name and saying 'you guys have it all WRONG.  That's not what I meant at all....that's the last time I rely on man to transcribe what I'm saying, they screwed it all up!'

For the record, Gid, I often think that you are the embodiment of what Christianity is all about.  You're not loud about it, you don't go telling everyone what you did to please your god and stay in his good favors; how you praised him in the middle of a crowd so that everyone would know you're a christian and see that you were praising him.

No, you do it quietly, steadfastly....you hold true to your beliefs and you go about your business without imposing said beliefs on anyone who doesn't ask for them.  You have somehow managed to see the big picture and you don't tie yourself up in the minutiae.  You are walking the walk, my man, and I am proud to know you and call you my friend.  Oh, and if I ever had a crisis of faith, you'd be one of two people I turned to for help and advice.  (the other person is also a JU-er, and he knows who he is.....don't you, Ted?!)

on Jun 10, 2006
I often wonder if god isn't observing all this stuff that's done in his name and saying 'you guys have it all WRONG. That's not what I meant at all....that's the last time I rely on man to transcribe what I'm saying, they screwed it all up!'

My point exactly, only better expressed.
on Jun 11, 2006
The way I see it, works matter as much as faith does. However, they alone won't save us nor would they be anything but (as the Bible puts it) filthy menstrual rags if not for Christ's redeeming sacrifice. I consider myself a "grace only" Christian because we humans can't save ourselves, and it is the sacrifice that saves us, but with our works and with our faith, we either accept or reject the gift.
on Jun 11, 2006
I myself, believe the same as you do. The whole church thing and the differnt denominations is why I do not attend church very often. At least not in a church building. I attend church all the time and probably more often than most people who go to a church building. I worship the Lord daily and am always in his word.
on Jun 11, 2006
Gid, this ties into something I read in the paper today.

It seems the Southern Baptist Convention is going to have some problems this year. There is a group of "young conservative" Christians who are having a problem with the way things are now in the denomination.

Their gripe?

SB's are too denominational (not all of course!), often believing other denominations are not saved. Putting legalism before love. Or as this article ties in so well...putting legalism (rules of the denomination)before grace. It should be a pretty lively conference.

I share pretty much the same views you do.....but have to admit it took me some years to get here. I can't tell God who He allows into heaven....and really wouldn't want the job. But I believe HE's told me exactly how to get there.
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