The journey from there to here

Note: While I shied away from religious topics for much of my time on JU, I believe that enough time has passed that readers know me well enough that I feel a little more secure in sharing my beliefs.

I am what is known as a "grace only" Christian. I believe we are sinners, saved by grace through faith, and that works on our part will not get us to heaven. As I have examined what that belief means, I have had to wrestle with a startling inconsistency among many Christians who hold the same belief as I do. I call it "the paradox of the grace only Christian", and I will explain it as clearly as I can.

Church A decrees that "you cannot be saved by faith alone; you must have works to save you". Church B claims that "we believe in Jesus Christ as expressed in the Bible, but we also believe there are other writings that bear equal inspiration". Church C says "we believe you are saved by grace through faith, and not through your own works. Church C will typically claim that members of churches A and B are not saved.

By doing so, church C is effectively placing shackles on God's grace. While proclaiming it to be limitless, and using it to excuse their own infallibility, they fail to recognize that churches A and B, while erroneous in their doctrine, may well be recipients of the same grace that church C claims as the basis for its own salvation. I contend that a grace great enough to cover my own shortcomings may well be great enough to cover that of others who do not believe exactly as I do.

So why do I consider myself an evangelical? Simple answer, really: Because I do not know where that line begins or ends. I believe there is a heaven, and I believe there is a hell, but I am the gatekeeper of neither. I am absolutely, positively sure that I know what the Bible says must be done to get to heaven; but, frankly, I'm not sure what all it takes to stay out of Hell, although I certainly know what kinds of actions one could perform to get there.

The paradox of the grace only Christian is an issue that I feel needs to be addressed among the churches that profess it. Otherwise, they're teaching a doctrine of works by demanding that followers adhere to their definition of grace rather than the Bible's.

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Comments (Page 2)
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on Jun 13, 2006
Jn 10:7 Therefore Jesus said again, “Very truly I tell you, I am the gate for the sheep.
Jn 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

It took me a while to understand these verses and to be truthful it is something I still struggle with. I am glad that you have come to understand them as well.

I’ve done some studying on Ephesians 2:8-9. Up until this point this is my conclusion:

We are saved on the basis of grace by means of faith. This is where it gets a bit touchy. Nothing we can do makes us deserving of the grace of God, neither does it compel him to give grace to us. As Paul writes in Romans 11, if grace was based on works, it would no longer be grace.

Until one recognizes the grace giver and the grace itself, however, one cannot live under aforesaid grace. That is where faith comes in. Faith may be best put as the putting on of Christ and a complete confidence in His blood for justification. One can conclude that through our trust and commitment to Christ Jesus and his ability to justify us, we are saved on the basis of grace. Not that our faith merits or earns the salvation in any way as a type of “work,” (for if righteousness could be gained through works, then Christ died for nothing!) rather it is the faculty by which we accept the salvation that God’s free grace has procured for us.

I just wanted to share where I am at on my journey to understand grace (it is a journey; I by no means claim to arrived yet).
on Jun 13, 2006
I have no problem with "Grace Only" doctrine. I am a believer in Saved by Grace, Judged by Works". Nothing we do for ourselves will save us, only Christ's atonement can do that. He alone is qualified to take the sins from anyone upon himself.


Para,

There's a reason I don't touch the LDS perspective on this. While I pride myself on knowing LDS history very well, I can't claim such authority on their doctrine. All I know is what I learned in my classes as a deacon...which would make my knowledge put up next to yours about the equivalent of a 7th grader's vs. a college graduate. But here's why I argue that the LDS church essentially holds a "grace only" doctrine. PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

To my understanding, the LDS definition of Hell differs pretty substantially from the typical evangelical Christian's view of Hell, and it's basically sort of an outer darkness. It is also my understanding that only the "worst of the worst" are truly condemned to this place, and that most will end up in one of the three levels of heaven, as the church defines it. While only the truly faithful in the church will make it to the celestial kingdom, there will be a good number of people in the lowest level (terrestrial, if memory serves me correctly) who didn't make it through works. This, one's placement in heaven is pretty much secured by the blood of Christ and a reasonable attempt at a good life, but one's placement WITHIN heaven is secured by their works (again, this is my interpretation of LDS doctrine, probably pretty bastardized, and it doesn't represent my views). In other words, pretty much as you described it: saved by grace, judged by works.

Am I even close in my understanding on this?
on Aug 13, 2006
Personally I think Hezbolla has 72 mansions with 72 berooms where each one a virgin is waiting for them.

Their "Faith" is more relevent than yours. They are in a "holy" war, and can't wait to satisfy some virgins.

Fox
on Aug 13, 2006
welcome to my blacklist, fox. I don't care how much you hate Christianity, you can stop polluting my threads. GOT IT?
on Sep 02, 2006
Am I even close in my understanding on this?


Pretty darn close, Gid, and I'd say that we are a "grace only" church as well. No matter how good we are, we still can't earn a place in heaven . . . it's only through showing Christ we want his help by trying the best that we can to live a good life in accordance with His words that we can make it to the Celestial Kingdom.

PS If you're curious, the Terrestrial is actually the middle one. The Telestial is the name of the lowest kingdom.
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