The journey from there to here

Flag desecration was once supposed to be a HUGE issue. Remember that? Politicians, wearing portions of the flag as articles of their clothing, often ties (ignoring the irony that their OWN actions are, technically, considered desecration as well) standing on their soapboxes and promising the full force of law to come down on Americans who desecrate our nations sacred fibers?

Or how about cross desecration? Doesn't go over big in the Bible belt, last I heard.

And, last, but not least, how about dishonoring the memory of our fallen soldiers. Not even the most militant leftists are stupid enough to do that.

And yet, one idiot in Crawford Texas simultaneously does all three and it generates all the noise of a butterfly fart.

You see, Cindy Sheehan painstakingly set up a memorial to the fallen soldiers. Regardless of her intent, the memorial was sincere and should have been regarded as such, her political identity notwithstanding. But a particular resident of George W. Bush's Texas home community took it upon himself to drive his four wheel drive through the memorial. News footage showed crosses and flags strewn across a bar ditch. The message was clear: regardless of the nature of a protest, dissent will not be tolerated in Crawford, Texas.

Now's the time for the District Attorney to act. We have anti-flag desecration laws. We have "hate crimes" legislation. Under the technical definitions of BOTH, this act applies (are you LISTENING, fed? Just because a CHRISTIAN religious symbol was attacked doesn't make it any less a desecration than a graffitti painted mosque or synagogue).

I, of course, do not see these actions as meriting the full force of the law. I don't see EITHER law cited as being "fair" or "reasonable". But, in front of our nation's highest court sits a statue of lady justice, blindfolded, holding a pair of scales. The concept of the artist was to depict the idea that justice is supposed to be blind. And if it is blind, then the full force of law should apply as much to this idiot as it does to a socialist flag burner on a public square in DC. In fact, the only REASONABLE law that I see this man as having violated is the act of vandalism, as those items were the owned property of another. But again, let's return to the concept of justice and the fact that it should apply EQUALLY to this man.

Otherwise, I have a gift of my own I'd like to give the citizens of Crawford, Texas. I would be willing to handpaint a sign stating "Welcome to Crawford, Texas. Leave your Constitutional Rights at the Door">


Comments (Page 2)
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on Aug 17, 2005
Actually, rereading my article, drmiler, you have no point at all. The title is "Where are all the flag waving rednecks now?", and the intent was clear: where are those who spoke out against cross desecration and flag burning (a predominantly held view among, umm, I dunno...REDNECKS, among others!)


No see you miss the point entirely. Why are you singling out "rednecks" in the first place? That my friend is a typical "leftist" tactic. You use the term "rednecks" instead of just "flag wavers" which would describe a lot more people than just "rednecks"! Or do you see it as only "rednecks" are flag wavers?
on Aug 17, 2005
That was on a different thread and was a question, not a statement or conspiracy. At the time of the article in question, all we knew was that it was some jerk in a pickup. NO mention as to politics or color of their nape was given.


No, I made the glib "commie conspiracy" theory thinking it was miler, rather than you, who posted it. I copied the comment to clarify so that he at least knew what I was referring to. It shouldn't have entered into the picture but did because of a name confusion. So to that end, I'll readily apologize.

You are stating they are a redneck when no evidence appears to that effect.


Actually, I didn't say the driver of the pickup was a redneck. THAT was drmiler's ASSUMPTION. I said that the rednecks who had rallied for anti-flag desecration laws, etc, were rednecks. As for "only rednecks driving pickup trucks", I didn't say THAT either. I made a (VERY tongue in cheek) comment that it couldn't be the right because "they drive hybrids".







Your point would have been better made to attack the individual in question. And once his politics and color of his nape were known, to then try a generalization. However, you instead attacked a lot of people who may or may not have agreed with the actions of the individual and branded them with the same broad brush.


I DID NOT CALL THE MAN A REDNECK. Reread the article and show me ONE QUOTE WHERE I DID. I called the man an IDIOT. Big difference. If you assume that by "idiot", I meant "redneck", YOU are doing the stereotyping, NOT me!

Why are you singling out "rednecks" in the first place?


Get a grip. I'm done with this one. This has gotten BEYOND ridiculous.
on Aug 17, 2005
To toss the argument back to you guys on the right, you're ignoring the point of the post and singling out ONE minor piece of it that is actually irrelevant to the whole thing.

If you remove the term "Redneck" from the above post completely, as well as the misguided statement that pickups are always 4x4s, there is still have a very valid point that is being tossed aside.
on Aug 17, 2005
LW - That quoted line was from me, and it's not much of a disagreement with your premise. All I was saying is that those who scream over the flag being burned in protest should be equally up in arms about people running them over with cars because they're being used in a protest they disagree with.

My point was the double-standard that comes up on this issue.

I actually agree with you on your points about hate crime legislation and such
on Aug 17, 2005
Hijacking the names of dead solidiers to make your point isn't the thing to do. I don't agree with acres of crosses in the abortion debate, and I don't agree with it here. Why the community at large isn't finding a way to expell this insane woman, I don't know, but evidently she isn't wanted there.

Was it right to tear down her little cross art? No, not unless it was the owner of the property who did it. Neither was it right for it to be put up in the first place. I find the idea of her using a crosses and the name of soldiers she doesn't know to promote her POLICITAL agenda easily as offensive as what the guy in the truck did.

Before you go painting signs, you might want to find out who owns the property, and whether it was valid for the display to have been there in the first place. In my opinion, even if she wasn't violating anyone's property rights or the law, she had no right to hijack other people's dead sons and daughters.
on Aug 17, 2005
P.S. If I am not mistaken, in 2001 the Supreme court overturned the convictions of people convicted of burning crosses on the grounds of free speech. If you can burn a cross to make a point, you can certainly run over one in a truck.

So, that would make this a case of civil disobedience, wouldn't it? I always thought you were a fan of civil disobedience, Gid. Maybe a guy in a pickup doesn't evoke Walden Pond for you, but is it really that different? If so, why?

The presence of the protesters is certainly an attempt to intimidate, and they were using crosses, so wouldn't what they are doing be akin to what they KKK does? Would you get mad at someone in a pickup that runs over a burning cross?

I'm surprised, Gid, things are not usually this black and white for you. Party line, maybe?
on Aug 17, 2005
Well, this Redneck is sitting at his computer resenting being lumped in with the kind of criminal minded people who maliciously do this kind of thing...

But I'll get over it, I keep forgetting my kind is fair game for these kinds of stereotypical generalizations.
on Aug 17, 2005
I can understand the issues folks have with Sheehan's make-shift memorial. I personally choose to believe that she's sincere, although I can see where her display might not have been the best choice.

I think it's disgusting that some asshole chose to drive over the memorial, and I have no problem labeling him a redneck. I'm a redneck, too. One who exercises at least some level of good judgment and shows at least a fraction of respect for other human beings, unlike the truck-driving douche bag who plowed through those reminders of American sacrifice.

Gideon, I think this may be one of the best articles written on this topic.

But again, let's return to the concept of justice and the fact that it should apply EQUALLY to this man.


Exactly.
on Aug 17, 2005
If somebody from Hollywood, California driving a Cadillac Escalade with a "John Kerry '04" sticker had done something similiar at a pro-war rally, this site would probably overload and shut down with all the vitriol from the conservative majority. As it is, I've got people on my threads condoning what happened because "They ain't on public property" (roads, shoulders, and yes, ditches are public property). It's hypocritical, and also exactly what I expect from guy, miler, and most of the rest.
on Aug 17, 2005
Isn't the redneck a protestor, too? When people tear down yellow ribbons and such, the Left likes to call that 'civil disobedience'. I personally see the guy in the truck protesting just as much as she was.

If he goes to jail, then he shouldn't be seen as any different than the G8 protestors and activist nits that get slapped on the wrist and turned loose. When you make a stink the size that the PAC sponsered activists are in Crawford, I think it should be expected that people will demand retort.

Gid has always stood for people's right to commit acts of civil disobedience as long as they were willing to pay the legal price. Evidently this time is different.
on Aug 17, 2005
He's not calling this man for doing something wrong, he's not supporting flag burning. He's wondering why, all of a sudden, those who scream over burning or desecrating a flag are nowhere to be seen when someone drives over a bunch in a pickup truck as he disrupts a peaceful protest. I think Gid is trying to point out the double standard practiced by those who decry flag desecration.
on Aug 17, 2005
Ah the right wing religio fascist MORONS ... emphasized placed!!!

hypocrites if there ever was one ... I bet you the idiot who drove over those
crosses is of military age (Pentagon just recently raised the age in lieu of
DISMAL recruitment numbers), but wont sign up. He probably has kids who he will
NEVER allow to sign up.

By the way, even though we are having problems recruiting (being in "national
guard" many are learning has nothing to do with defending/protecting the "nation") the rebels on the other side have NO PROBLEMS recruitment, in fact
there numbers couldnt be any higher judging by the daily if not HOURLY suicide
bombings in Iraq.

And the Taliban are retaking Afghanistan ... its vietnam all over again and
as then WE ARE THE EVIL ONES!

If anyone wants to heckle Cindy or drive over crosses, they cshould first begin
by calling 1-800-USA-ARMY .. put your money and your USELESS LIFE where your
mouth is

Wake up people
on Aug 17, 2005
" I think Gid is trying to point out the double standard practiced by those who decry flag desecration."


So, say, Jews in America that get uppity about flag burning should also get outraged over cross desecration? No offense intended, but I don't think the cross has ever been put on that pedestal. The only reason there were ever laws against it in the first place is because the KKK used it for racial intimidation, and THAT didn't even hold up in court. If some rednecks burn crosses, is driving over them more heinous?

So, to me, it is apples and oranges, and the Supreme court has ruled against laws like Gid says they'd better be prosecuting the guy with. So I don't think the whole town sign thing he threatens really means anything. No one would prosecute them for burning a flag, would they?

I think he's basing this more on a stereotype than reality. I don't recall many being up in arms over the flag burning issue here at JU. Since cross-burning is another redneck stereotype, I don't know why this lack of outrage needs to be political.
on Aug 18, 2005
One thing that bugged me about her letter to nightline was this line:

"It would be so amazing if your show would put me, or another parent who lost their child on who disagrees with the war and this administration: to have just an entire show..without presenting the false side of the debate. That would take a lot of courage and integrity. I hope your program will exhibit these qualities. "


Why should her opinion stand unopposed? Because she lost her son? Other people who support the war lost their sons and daughters. Maybe she meant that shows should be segregated to prevent animosity, but I don't think so. The "false side of the debate" speaks volumes.

If people are going to accuse those who support Bush of brushing off Sheehan, then they need to look to their characterizations of those parents who support Bush, I think. They aren't being taken any more seriously by Sheehan's supporters.

She brushes off the opinion of parents who lost children and still support Bush. Is it surprising that she is brushed off? The people camping out at Bush's ranch aren't interested in any other point of view, either.
on Aug 18, 2005
Robios: Your post oozes of admiration for the terrorist baceria. Tell me, when will you be joining those you respect the most... or are you as cowardly as you accuse those who support the war but don't fight in it of being?
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