The journey from there to here

Another blogger (let's call this blogger "Darcie Doo") asked about surrogate parenting. The question, for mothers, is if they would do it given the opportunity. "Darcie Doo" went on to say what a beautiful thing children are and what a blessing.

Now, considering less than 24 hours prior, this individual had suggested that we should not have had some of ours, and insinuated that we neglect them, I find this statement absolutely astonishing. Apparently children are beautiful only if you make $100k a year and drive fancy cars. Because God knows, second hand clothes and beans and rice are neglect (the part about the beans and rice was almost directly said by this individual).

Now, I happen to know this individual considers themselves a good, faithful Christian. If you don't believe me, just ask this individual. Now, I may be reading my Bible wrong, but somehow it seems to me there's a few verses on "love" in there. Love this person can muster for a cat, love they can muster for someone else's children (to the point of dictating to parents how said children should be raised), but love they are seemingly incapable of raising for someone who happens to have a large family.

But this individual is not alone in their hypocrisy. Oh no. In fact, in the VAST MAJORITY of "Christian" churches I have attended (most of them composed of people predominantly anti abortion), I have found only a small minority accepting of our large family. In fact, the only denominations I have found that have consistently been accepting of our large family have been the Catholics, the Mormons, and the Mennonites. Well, we're not Catholic, not Mormon, and the nearest Mennonite fellowship is over an hour away. So we're kinda outta the loop there.

I am tired of Christians who talk about how life is a blessing but don't support life. Who tell the ghetto crackwhore she can't abort her baby, but who don't support the idea of helping people like that to better their lives so they won't feel so damned desperate. Who look down on families with many children, and even accuse them of neglect because they don't live to the standard these Pharisees have deemed acceptable.

I love my children, each and every one of them. And if this individual cannot see where I was offended, then truly they DO have some sort of mental illness. They attacked my family, and when they did that, I feel I was totally within my boundaries to respond in kind. Truly, I hope this individual's teaching career is short. The children of America do not NEED judgmental hypocrites like that teaching their kids.

I would have kept it on this individual's thread, but I was invited off of it. So I'm going to respond somewhere.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Aug 19, 2007
Apparently children are beautiful only if you make $100k a year and drive fancy cars.


Finally you figured it out, Gid. They just pretend to think big families are good, because once you have the fancy car and the kid pukes in the back for the first time, big family = game over.

Well, you know I'm down with your bad self and your plethora of small MacLeishes. But, this begs the question (this is what happens when I go out of town for the weekend, I get out of the loop on this crazy place) - where did this altercation begin where your beans and rice were deemed inadequate? Link please. Boy wants to know.
on Aug 19, 2007

http://marciehelen.joeuser.com/articleComments.asp?AID=160320

It's quite a ways down. The comment was made by the author of the post. Here is the exact, unexpurgated comment (as applies to family):

And perhaps stopping the procreation might make it a little easier for you to find housing in "tough housing markets" and feeding your kids a little bit more rounded meal than beans and rice.

on Aug 19, 2007

Further, to the individual in question:

If you want me not to READ your articles, you might not want to post them to the forums. I'll avoid responding on your blog as a courtesy, but I can't say the same about mine.

on Aug 19, 2007
You lack the self-control to not read my blog? Hmmm...figures.

Just a little FYI, I've NOTHING against large families. My father was from a family of 8, and my mother from a family of 5. I also never said anything about abortion (I'm all about other birth control methods however). If you want to feed your children beans and rice consistently, I don't really care. They're your kids, and you raise them the way you want.

I don't understand the way you overreact whenever someone mentions your family. You IMMEDIATELY fly off the handle. If you think everything's a-ok in your household, who the heck cares what anyone else thinks?

You're some uber-Christian? You think THIS kind of reaction is Christian? I don't think so. This type of article shows absolutely none of the biblical "love" you speak about in this article. I don't consider myself a "good, faithful" Christian. I'm probably one of the crappiest there are out there. All Christians are hypocrites in one way or another. Myself included, but not in this area. I'm all about life, but if *I* (not YOU) can't care for the life I might create, I'm going to do everything I can to prevent that life. And if the prevention doesn't work, well, I'm going to love that child no matter what and work as hard as I can to make sure that child is provided for properly. (ME....not YOU...you do whatever the hell you want).

Also, you have no idea what kind of teacher I am. I know you and your queen think that you do, but you don't. When you get your administrator's license, you'll be qualified to make that judgement. I'm not the best teacher out there, that's for sure, but I am continually working to improve myself and my pedagogical knowledge.

You resent me for "attacking" your family? I resent that you imply that I have some sort of mental illness. If having an opinion different from yours makes one mentally ill, then I guess we should all be institutionalized.

Keep making your assumptions about what I think. It doesn't matter what I say anyway, you read into it what you want to. And I frankly couldn't care less. You're a hypocrite for thinking that this is some sort of "Christian" response to a conflict.

So, prince of lies, that's all I'm going to say. I'm going to extend to you the same courtesy you've extended me. Thank you for staying away from my blog. I appreciate it.

on Aug 19, 2007
I resent that you imply that I have some sort of mental illness.


I didn't IMPLY; I stated that to be my opinion. There's a difference.

I'll tell you flat out. I think you're mentally ill, and I think you're a ticking time bomb and a danger to any child you teach. How's that?

If you want to feed your children beans and rice consistently, I don't really care.


Then why did you say it?

You lack the self-control to not read my blog?


Apparently you can't stay off of mine either!

I don't understand the way you overreact whenever someone mentions your family. You IMMEDIATELY fly off the handle. If you think everything's a-ok in your household, who the heck cares what anyone else thinks?


My family is the single most important thing to me on this planet. If I have to even EXPLAIN why you attacking my family is offensive, then obviously you'll never understand.

You're some uber-Christian?


I don't claim to be an uber Christian, Marcie. I stepped away from the churches, remember? Precisely BECAUSE of this type of idiocy I see consistently on display!

Also, you have no idea what kind of teacher I am.


I know that I would absolutely, under no circumstances, want my child enrolled even in the same DISTRICT where you are teaching. That's all I NEED to know. If other parents want you to fill their children's head with your garbage, who am I to quibble?

You're a hypocrite for thinking that this is some sort of "Christian" response to a conflict.


I didn't say it was a Christian response, did I, Marcie?

So, prince of lies, that's all I'm going to say.


No lies in anything I said. None.

Thank you for staying away from my blog. I appreciate it.


If it's in the forums, I WILL be reading it.
on Aug 19, 2007
I too have found that there is not a lot of acceptance for people with big families (big meaning anything larger than 2 if B/G, anything larger than 3 if both sexes have been obtained).

While there is nothing wrong with small families, I think in some ways those who believe they can't "afford" to have more than 1 or 2 children are putting their focus on things instead of people.

Of course, having children or not, and how many to have, is a personal choice and I don't mean to criticize people with smaller families. I just know I love discovering my children and I love a house full of craziness.
on Aug 19, 2007
Of course, having children or not, and how many to have, is a personal choice and I don't mean to criticize people with smaller families. I just know I love discovering my children and I love a house full of craziness.


I agree. The craziness makes it all worth it!
on Aug 19, 2007
I hate JU right now.
on Aug 19, 2007
Really. I hate it. It's broken.
on Aug 19, 2007
Third time's a charm, I hope... When I found out that I was pregnant with Jake, Dave and I thought about abortion. We didn't think that we could afford another child; we already had two and were relying on my income to make ends meed. However, I couldn't do it. I couldn't kill the child that was inside me, period. I was going to say 'not because of money' but that isn't true - I couldn't have killed any child of mine, no matter what. There isn't any reason that I consider good enough to terminate any pregnancy (btw, isn't it nice how we gussy up the teminology? We choose words to make the act of killing a human child seem more acceptable and less horrific. Personally, I prefer to tell it how it is). So, along came Jake. yes, money was tight. Very tight. However, we all got fed (and we didn't ever have beans and rice), we all got clothed and shod and nobody ever went without something that they needed. I'm sitting here looking at a tow-headed kid with freckles on his nose who lives to skateboard and there is no doubt in my mind that he was (and is) absolutely worth it. We made the right decision. We chose his life.
on Aug 19, 2007
(btw, isn't it nice how we gussy up the teminology? We choose words to make the act of killing a human child seem more acceptable and less horrific. Personally, I prefer to tell it how it is).


Exactly.

Thanks for your story, dharma. From the pictures you've posted of your kids, you have every reason to be proud.
on Aug 19, 2007
I don't understand the way you overreact whenever someone mentions your family. You IMMEDIATELY fly off the handle. If you think everything's a-ok in your household, who the heck cares what anyone else thinks?


you attack someone and don't understand how they could possible defend themselves.



i don't know if you remember Mr green in Utah. the one that had 4 wives. he was sent to prison for bigamy. they charged him with statuary rape. but they didn't put him in prison for rape. they put him in prison because he was on Medicaid and food stamps. although he wasn't using the food stamps.

so he went to prison because he was on food stamps. question well he is/was in prison what was his family using.
on Aug 20, 2007
second hand clothes and beans and rice are neglect (the part about the beans and rice was almost directly said by this individual).


If she believes this to be true (even if she thinks we should not care what she thinks) then she would have a heart attack in my house. Last time I bought a T-Bone steak (which was also my first time) was around the time my oldest son was maybe 2. Most of my food is store brand, I by the cheapest ground meat, you know the one with the most fat in it. My kids eat those cheap $20 soup packs or a box of elbow pasta, a bottle of chicken bullion and some water and my kids are as happy as if I dropped them in a Toys'R'U store with a signed blank check. Fried food is the menu most of the days of the week. Rice and beans decorate the plate 5 out of 7 days a week. I guess I must be a horrible parent, I can hear child services already pulling up in the parking.

I bet if I went to a homeless shelter where there are parents with children and offered to take all those who are willing to eat my horrible-for-children menu, I don't think there are enough city buses to carry them all.

On a worst day my kids eat 10 times better than those kids in the sponsor-a-child TV shows.

When you get your administrator's license, you'll be qualified to make that judgement.


Interesting, considering that as a parent with a child in school, I do not need an "administrator's license" to be qualified to judge a teacher. If I think the teacher stinks, I take it to the Admin of the school and if that don't work I'll go even higher and if that fails I will go to the media. I'm sure they will have fun looking ofr other parents who will probably agree with me. Even if there are very few, just getting the word out, the teachers pic on TV is enough to put him/her on the same spotlight as those teachers having sex with their own students. When it comes to my children I have every right to judge those who spend part if not most of the day with them and are responsible for what they learn.
on Aug 20, 2007

But you do, don't you? And take medication for it? Geeze, Louise, it's not like that's something to be ashamed of, until you start denying it. You even mentioned on a recent thread about how you feel your medication needs to be upped, yet sit here copping an attitude because your mental illness was implied?


Ouch, this is the kind of response that would make me pull my internet cable, hide under my bed and never show my face to the world again. Of course on JU this would only be a dream for some.
on Aug 20, 2007
Interesting, considering that as a parent with a child in school, I do not need an "administrator's license" to be qualified to judge a teacher. If I think the teacher stinks, I take it to the Admin of the school and if that don't work I'll go even higher and if that fails I will go to the media.


See, this individual has pretty much stressed that she doesn't think parents know anything and that she is best qualified to say what is best for the child. Too bad more parents aren't willing to go to the media, though. This element needs to be driven out of the profession, IMEABO.
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