The journey from there to here
Published on February 4, 2006 By Gideon MacLeish In Politics

In reaction to the publication of an offensive image of Mohammed, Protestors have taken to the streets, lighting the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus on fire. Apparently ignorant of the concept of free speech, this violence is in retribution for the governments allowing the publication of the offensive cartoon.

When discussing the outrage, pundits have rightly turned to the now notorious "Piss Christ" in order to establish relevance in our majority Christian society. It is an apt comparison. And the response of the offended groups in question show a decided difference between the way that practitioners of the Islamic and Christian faith react to offenses.

Now let me state that the Christian reaction to "Piss Christ" was, in my estimation, ridiculous. But at no time did it turn into violence. Let me further state that it is entirely possible that the thousands putting these embassies to the torch are not representative of the Muslim faith, but rather of fringe elements among the faith. As noted before (September 11, notably), whenever these attacks occur and are committed by Muslims, the mainstream Muslim community is slow to denounce them (the "Piss Christ" debate, on the other hand, was quite lively in the Christian community, and I still chuckle at the image of buttoned down pastors struggling to force out the word "piss" in their protestations of the controversial piece).

Muslim leaders have been working hard to remake the image of Islam into that of a group of peaceful citizens working to make the world a better place. And some of them are. Matter of fact, the MAJORITY of them probably are, or we'd have a whole lot more instability than we do. But there's a SIZABLE faction that is, indeed, Islam's ugly side, and it MUST be addressed before we can seriously consider Islam's claim for "peaceful religion" status.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 05, 2006
"This could become a good joke:
What's the difference between apartheid and Islam?
One is an ideology rooted in racism and implemented with violence.
The other is some South-African political system of the past."

lol, too true.

on Feb 05, 2006
>The other is some South-African political system of the past

This response says it all.
It reveals more about you (and your ilk) than you would ever believe.

You are bigots, racists to the core ...
on Feb 05, 2006
As pointed out in many instances, education is both the problem and the answer. Muslims world wide are being taught that the West is the reason for all their problems, past and present. Wasn't it the West that through them out of Spain? And although the West might have dealt better with them in setting up the money=machines that are the middle east, don't forget who they had to deal with in that business back then. The Muslims need an education in business practices of the West, and perhaps they wouldn't take things so personal. It all gets down to lesson learning. May the best school win. Tell the truth, Lucille.
on Feb 06, 2006
>Problem is, we know all these things. We just don't happen to agree that the Jews in the
>middle east should leave for Europe or live as second-class citizens among Arabs.

But its OK for the arabs to live as second class citizens?

You forget that before the mass immigration of russian jews into palestine (before and
after balfour accord) that area was overwhemingly arab and identified as such.

In fact Ben Gurion and the Jewish Agency refused the implemenation of a government based
on DEMOCRATIC votes .. because their numbers were low.

I am practical about things ... you cant undo the past ... thats why I favor a two state
solution ... not a state within a state as zionists would call for.

A better idea would have been to partition Germany and give a portion to the Jews after
all a German caused the problem. Why visit this on innocent arabs .. .and in that I fully
agree with the Iranian President?

But whats done is done and the two are linked (jew and arab) ... form a second state,
go back to 1967 borders

doesnt gurantee the violence will end ... but a portion of the rallying cry will cease.
give them a true state not one within another.

Also one final comment to all those of you who shamelessly support ALL ZIONIST POLICIES
(forgetting that these two groups are cousins for goodnes sakes)
JOIN THE IDF
put your money where your mouth is
on Feb 06, 2006
>The other is some South-African political system of the past

This response says it all.
It reveals more about you (and your ilk) than you would ever believe.

You are bigots, racists to the core ...


Take a hike, clueless!
on Feb 06, 2006
Liberals say we need to be tolerant, and not "offend" them.

on Feb 07, 2006
www.guardian.co.ukSLASHinternationalSLASHstorySLASH0,,1703501,00.html
(replace SLASH with appropriate key)
Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons

SO much for this being about a FREE SPEECH issue. To summarize:

***********************
Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today.

The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.
*****************

So, if it will piss off Christians we dont publish it. If it will piss off Muslims ...
we do ... once more supporting my believe that someone/somegroup did this on purpose.

MISDIRECTION ... watch the birdie ...
on Feb 07, 2006

Reply By: rombios(Anonymous User)

You are a bigotted small minded troll.  No wonder Dabe liked you so much.  You are a one trick pony that does not even have one trick.  Just the same old staid hatred of anything that is not exactly like you.  Sad, very sad.

on Feb 07, 2006
Well he's not wrong. It's in the common domain that the danish paper rejected the Christian cartoons, and also that the editor wouldn't have run the cartoons had he known there would be death threats and attacks on embassies and the like.
on Feb 07, 2006
Jesus is lampooned constantly in Western culture. So is God and Moses. If that one newspaper decided not to run a cartoon, one would have to see it to know why. Maybe it wasn't funny. Maybe it was in much worse taste than just putting a bomb in a turban. Maybe there was no reason to do so. The Muslim caricatures were pertinant to issues being dealt with at the time, i.e. the paper being told they couldn't. Maybe if Christians had told the paper they'd better not print a picture of Jesus, it might have been different.

let's not lose sight of the real problem. This isn't about taste, this is about Muslims saying you can't do cartoons of Mohammed at all, or any other depiction for that matter. Jesus is is in comedy material all the time. Will we be told that Mohammed can't be?
on Feb 07, 2006
Well I don't think that's entirely right. Muhammad was a superfriend on South Park, and there was no burning of effigies. But then again the representation of Muhammad in that episode was far more positive than in the recent cartoons.
on Feb 07, 2006
The fact is the cartoons are just an excuse. If they printed cartoons mocking Christianity, there would have been no violence at all. Stop focusing on these cartoons and realize this is just an excuse.
on Feb 07, 2006
on Feb 07, 2006
"Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar told the Italian daily il Giornale on Saturday that the cartoons were an offense that should be punished by death.
"We should have killed all those who offend the Prophet and instead here we are, protesting peacefully," Zahar said."

Link
on Feb 07, 2006

>The other is some South-African political system of the past

This response says it all.
It reveals more about you (and your ilk) than you would ever believe.

You are bigots, racists to the core ...


Why, because I forgot to change my opinion about a culture of violence because of the race of the perpetrators? Wouldn't it be racist to do that?



>Problem is, we know all these things. We just don't happen to agree that the Jews in the
>middle east should leave for Europe or live as second-class citizens among Arabs.

But its OK for the arabs to live as second class citizens?


I don't care what political system they employ in their own countries. They certainly have enough to choose from.



You forget that before the mass immigration of russian jews into palestine (before and
after balfour accord) that area was overwhemingly arab and identified as such.


The exact population statistics of Canaan are a different matter as they certainly don't take into account the Jews fleeing from Arab countries where they had lived as second-class citizens (at best) for centuries.


In fact Ben Gurion and the Jewish Agency refused the implemenation of a government based on DEMOCRATIC votes .. because their numbers were low.


And in Germany non-Jewish Germans voted the Jews into death camps. What an evil bastard Ben Gurion was, eh?



I am practical about things ... you cant undo the past ... thats why I favor a two state solution ... not a state within a state as zionists would call for.


Which zionists call for a state within a state? The Zionists have ALWAYS accepted a two-state solution. It was the Arabs who refused it again and again, the last time in 2000.



A better idea would have been to partition Germany and give a portion to the Jews after all a German caused the problem. Why visit this on innocent arabs .. .and in that I fully agree with the Iranian President?


It's nice that you agree with the Iranian president. But you might have noticed, had you read more history books and fewer Iranian president speeches, that Germany was partitioned, twice. After World War I a huge area was given to establish Poland, even though the area had a German majority population. And after World War II more German land (the Prussian provinces of East-Prussia, Pommerania, and Silesia) were added to Poland, and the Germans had to leave.

BTW, in case you didn't notice, there is no need to partition Germany to give Jews a state, because Jews in Germany are full citizens, are allowed to vote, do not get slaughtered, and participate in normal German life. Jews in Germany do not need a separate state because Germany simply doesn't treat them as badly (any more) as Arabs treat their minorities.

Your "innocent Arabs" were very involved in what this "a German" did. And for all the bad things Hitler did, you can hardly blame him personally for how Arabs treated all minorities in general and their Jewish minorities in particular. The grand mufti of Jerusalem was not in Germany to discuss a cultural exchange, you know.

You are perhaps not aware of this, since your sources about history are apparently open to improvement, but Israel is NOT a colony of German Jews that escaped the holocaust. The majority of Israelis are sephardic Jews from the Arab world.

They are among the ones that the Iranian president wants to send "back" to Europe. They have never been there. They have a totally Arabic and Iranian background with no connection at all with Europe or America.

President whatever wants all the Jews sent to Europe or to be eliminated. If he succeeds the middle east will finally be Jew-free, after how many thousand years. And that you agree with him on the Germany plan shows either a surprising hatred or huge ignorance (or, more likely, both) on your part. Or what exactly does sending millions of Arab-, Persian-, and Hebrew-speaking to Germany entail in your opinion, if not a huge violation of their rights? Not even the most idiotic Jewish fundamentalist would argue that Palestinian Arabs should be send into a completely strange land with which they have no ties whatsoever. But Israel's opponents find such a plan acceptable for Jews. Odd, isn't it?

BTW, what's a "Palestinian"? Does "Palestinian" include those Jews whose families have lived in "Palestine" for longer than any Arab? According to the PA it does not, or do you ever hear of Jews among them? Perhaps if we remove the three-thousand-years old Jewish community from Hebron we can have peace? Is that what the "innocent Arabs" want?

After all, they already live in Jew-free countries for the most part. There is one left. And in it the Jews fought back.

Since you are "practical" I suggest you just deal with it.
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