is that not harassment?  It sounds like it.  And yes, you are right.  Where is the outrage here?  They rail against legal spying on spies, and then are deathly silent here.  But I actually no longer expect any less.

what you're describing is an outrage. i find it abhorrent.

considering you're living in the political equivalent of 'fortress europe'--created by and for faux-conservative rightwing republicans--it's a bit silly and short-sighted to attribute it elsewhere.

i'll grant you prolly attract more readers playing that ol 'the left don't ______' or 'the left does ______' card (filling in the blank with any variable from 'brush their teeth' to 'openly consorts with satan'); keep in mind what happened to the boy who cried wolf.

kingbee,

The reason I used this comment is that every attempt I have made to bring this to the attention of more left wing elements has been ignored. In fact, most of the left simply support expansion of the quota based child-as-hostage system that pervades the thinking of CPS agencies at present. While they write, blog, and postulate on issues such as NSA wiretaps, of holding terrorist combatants at Gitmo without trials, of denying due process, they ignore the fact that this is ROUTINELY done and accepted by many of them when it happens within CPS on a local level.

My ability to move freely throughout the community has been compromised by the fact that I have to continue to watch for agents spying on us. I have to give my children instructions on how to respond if they are approached and questioned by these individuals. I have to print out cards for them to give these agents stating that they will not speak to them without their parents or attorney present. I have to be ever vigilant about what they wear, the way they fix their hair, and where they are 24/7, and deny them much of the independence they should be beginning to enjoy at this age...all out of fear of a government that was designed to PROTECT, not harass. And I simply cannot overlook the fact that this harassment began in a rather LEFTIST enclave, by individuals with more "liberal" mindsets that not only ENDORSED, but aided and abetted the governments in doing this.

It's not truly a left/right thing; it's an authoritarian government thing. But because the left INSISTS that they are intent on preserving the rights of the indvidual while they at the same time support legislation that ERODES the rights of the individual, I will hold them accountable for this inconsistency. The simple truth is, they don't CARE! I say that about them as a group, not about individuals within the group.

I've contacted the John Birch Society about this. While I don't endorse a lot of what they believe, I am willing to enlist any allies I have in this fight. And I have found NONE on the left (while the National Center for Child Protection Reform is pretty leftist in nature, they refuse to involve themselves in any individual cases or refer individuals to anyone who will, so they're pretty useless, really).

What a crock; good luck, Gid. Maybe you should try moving to Indiana...they could virtually care less about homeschoolers. I personally know a couple who moved there for just that purpose.

A bit off-topic here, but I wonder how the left would feel about illegal wiretapping and spying if it were directed against, say, people bombing abortion clinics or gay bars? No reason to answer, just a thought.

And I simply cannot overlook the fact that this harassment began in a rather LEFTIST enclave,

if you're alluding to the first appearance of government interest in protecting children, it began--as i suggested and you confirmed--as a response by progressives to a serious and very real problem.

if you're trying to claim cps--as it is currently manifested--acquired its extraordinary and extralegal powers thanks to the efforts of one side of the aisle, you're incorrect. you're ignoring or overlooking reagan administration policy that turned foster care into an industry by essentially offering bounty payments to caregivers. like any pay-for-play enterprize, it invests a portion of those payments in friendly legislation and legislators willing to propose it. this is where i believe the problem is rooted.

consider this: the la county sheriff's department provides contract law enforcement services to a number of small cities in la county. under those contracts, the department recieves a set fee for each person taken into custody as well as each person transported to the county lockup facilities it manages. furthermore, it receives a fee for transporting those in custody to courthouses and another one for returning them to those same lockups.

this arrangement opens the door to a whole range of civil liberties abuses, as prevalent and egregious as those you've reported. i don't know why more people don't apply for injunctions against abusive deputies...and i strongly encourage you to pursue that avenue against any agency engaging in the kinda activities you describe.

if, by a leftist enclave, you're referring to the community in which you currently reside, i've seriously misread your previous descriptions of the place.

one more thing: librarians were among the first and the most vocal opponents of the excesses contained in the so-called patriot act. your local librarians seem to be in your corner. i wouldn't be fool enuff to make an assumption as to their political preferences but i'd say there's a fifty-fifty chance they don't concur with the greater part of the republican texas platform statement.

if you're alluding to the first appearance of government interest in protecting children, it began--as i suggested and you confirmed--as a response by progressives to a serious and very real problem

No, I am referring to OUR initial conflicts with these idiots, which, as I've chronicled before, began ELSEWHERE.

Kingbee,

Do you really believe that if I was being wiretapped for making calls to Jordan rather than having my family's movements spied upon, the left wouldn't be ALL OVER this?

See, here's the deal: the NSA wiretaps LEAD national news. EVERY leftist organization (and not a few right-wing organizations, but it's pretty much universal among the left) has decried these actions, called for investigations and/or Bush's impeachment. AS THEY SHOULD, mind you!

But when I post stories about CPS oversight, about the violations of civil liberties that are ROUTINELY enacted on parents falsely accused of abuse or neglect, I can't GET it to the mainstream media. I'm branded an extremist because I demand that the fourth amendment stop CPS agents short of my doorstep. Very few lawyers will represent families falsely accused of abuse/neglect, and many of those who will only give token representation. At the meantime, pedophiles, terrorists, and other perpetrators of serious criminal acts get pro bono representation from the best and the brightest. Meanwhile, the response that I and others who have worked to protect the rights have seen, has come PREDOMINANTLY from the right (again, notably excluding the NCCPR).

I don't wish to catch you and other more responsive liberals in the net, kingbee, but the sad and simple truth is that most media and politicians DO NOT CARE. That conservatives don't care is no surprise; they've pretty much established their fundamental belief in the right to spy on anyone just because they CAN. But when the issue of domestic surveillance is so heavily discussed among the left while they allow the greater wrongs to continue, that's just plain hypocrisy.

No, I am referring to OUR initial conflicts with these idiots, which, as I've chronicled before, began ELSEWHERE.

sorry. i didn't realize your mention of 'enclaves of the left' was an allusion to events in your personal life. i truly thought you were of the opinion the left intended cps to become what it is today

i truly thought you were of the opinion the left intended cps to become what it is today

Sorry for the miscommunication. I am well aware the left DIDN'T intend CPS to become what it is today, and that if the majority of leftist activists knew what it HAS become, they would be alarmed.

But the truth is, I have found very little support or willingness to expose the FACTS about CPS, despite the fact that I can point these individuals to a MOUNTAIN of evidence of the abuses that are going on. While I have the knowledge and skills to at least mount a decent fight against CPS, most of these families DO NOT.

I would encourage you, if you haven't already, to visit the website of the National Center for Child Protection reform (www.nccpr.org). This site is full of excellent documentation, case histories, and, most importantly, tangible solutions to address both the quite legitimate concerns of child welfare and the equally legitimate rights of the family.

One of the worst things about CPS as it stands is that it drives away the very families that could use its assistance if it were acting legitimately (note: this is NOT the fault of individual CPS agents, but of a bureaucracy that measures success only in numbers). As a result, many lower income families are becoming fearful of CPS or other government agencies, and are trying to keep out of sight. The net result of this is that children are HURT by not receiving the assistance that is out there and available because of a consistent betrayal of trust by the very individuals that profess to be HELPING the needy.

if I was being wiretapped for making calls to Jordan rather than having my family's movements spied upon, the left wouldn't be ALL OVER this?

if it seemed likely the government was complying with the law and monitoring only international communications and if the executive branch seemed to be putting more time and energy into bolstering the nation's security than it seems to have diverted during five years of persistent covert attempts to expand its powers to the detriment of the other two branches, i sincerely doubt your calls to jordan would be generate much interest or outrage on anyone's part.

while it may have appeared i was just rambling on about the la sheriff's department, i see some very obvious parallels, one of which is breathtaking apathy in the wake of any but the most outrageous abuses perpetrated by lasd. for much of the past 25 years, only one attorney--one of the tens of thousands who live and practice here--has been consistently willing to step up and take them on.

during the roughly 3 years i found myself in exile on main street (literally) i witnessed sworn deputies doing stuff i hadn't seen since leaving detroit...and notta peep outta anyone right or left. not that i expected much support for law from the law & order proponents on the right either.

Wow Gid.

I'd get a restraining order.

That's just creepy.

OK, so we're pretty much in agreement that abuses of civil liberties are coming pretty regularly from both left and right, correct?

If so, then you'll understand why my comments have been focused...you see, the left has at least PURPORTED to care about these things and should be a receptive forum to complaints about these trespasses by government. Instead they have stood idly by while the rights of our citizens are regularly violated. As a person who was raised by a FAR leftist parent, using the words of Martin Neimoeller, I find the reaction of the left highly ironic.

I would encourage you, if you haven't already, to visit the website of the National Center for Child Protection reform (www.nccpr.org). This site is full of excellent documentation, case histories, and, most importantly, tangible solutions to address both the quite legitimate concerns of child welfare and the equally legitimate rights of the family

somewhere a lil earlier on in this sorta staggered conversation i think i provided you with a link to nccpr.org. i'd first run across it while searching for something else and returned to it when you were reporting the horror show you hadda go thru a couple months ago (maybe not quite that long but..)

One of the worst things about CPS as it stands is that it drives away the very families that could use its assistance if it were acting legitimately (note: this is NOT the fault of individual CPS agents, but of a bureaucracy that measures success only in numbers). As a result, many lower income families are becoming fearful of CPS or other government agencies, and are trying to keep out of sight. The net result of this is that children are HURT by not receiving the assistance that is out there and available because of a consistent betrayal of trust by the very individuals that profess to be HELPING the needy.

exactly. the above is--in my opinion--a very approachable, concise and easily comprehensible explanation of what's wrong with cps. it's also very rational and objective. it would work very well as the core of a campaign policy statement.

OK, so we're pretty much in agreement that abuses of civil liberties are coming pretty regularly from both left and right, correct?

sorry i hadda run and just now found my way back here to respond to your last comment (apparently we were posting at the same time which meant i was about one response behind you).

actually i thought we were in agreement that the right--no matter how loudly it proclaims itself in favor of personal freedom--too frequently works to limit civil liberties while the left has a deplorable tendency to lose its focus if not its grasp when needed to counter the right's efforts.

left has at least PURPORTED to care about these things and should be a receptive forum to complaints about these trespasses by government. Instead they have stood idly by while the rights of our citizens are regularly violated

cps is complex and situations such as yours are almost unimaginable--except by those who've been been victimized or have witnessed them.

i think i mentioned having done what i could to help friends who found themselves there. when i was first approached to do that, i was very skeptical because there was such a 'through the looking glass' feel to the whole thing.

what you perceive as 'ignoring' might as easily be 'ignorance'. in which case, educating is almost surely gonna work in your favor much more easily and effectively than any other option.