The journey from there to here
Published on December 30, 2005 By Gideon MacLeish In Politics

I have noticed an interesting trend among apologists for the left lately. When referring to the Iraqi dead, they will often use the number of 1.5 million, rather than the 30,000 acknowledged by even LIBERAL estimates to have died since our invasion of Iraq. When pressed, they will acknowledge that the 1.5 million number includes those estimated by the UN to have died as a result of sanctions.

Why is this ironic? Well, all it requires is a memory span of just over three years to understand this. You see, it was just about three years ago when the debate on invading Iraq began to gain serious momentum that the left argued that continued sanctions against Iraq were preferable to the invasion. Yet, by their own admission, sanctions have cost 50 TIMES the number of lives as the invasion has. Now granted, sanctions have been in place longer than the amount of time we've been in Iraq, but still, when you consider 12 years of sanctions, the body count in Iraq averaged over 100,000 per year by the UN's own estimates, vs. the 10,000 per year since we invaded Iraq in this conflict. That means over 90,000 Iraqi lives were  SAVED by our intervention. I believe if you were one of the more than a quarter million Iraqis who owed their lives to our intervention, you'd be the least bit grateful.

In attemtping to mount their argument AGAINST the war, then, ironically the left has mounted probably the strongest argument FOR the war. The fact is, the authors of these talking points HAVE to have seen it. My guess is, they were hoping to shock us with the 1.5 million number without having us ask questions. Congratulations to those who were smart enough to ask.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Jan 02, 2006
Yes the administration made their assertions about the danger to America look like established facts while they had intelligence that said many of those so called "factual assertions" were not true. We were NOT told we were going to war to stop Saddam from killing Iraqis. We were told he was a danger to America. Bush has changed the rational for the Iraq three times:

Danger to America.

Saddam was evil and violated UN Resolutions

Spreading Democracy
on Jan 02, 2006
Prs. Bush DIDN'T claim Hussein was an imminent threat, he said that we shouldn't wait for him to become one.


"Some have argued that the nuclear threat from Iraq is not imminent - that Saddam is at least 5-7 years away from having nuclear weapons. I would not be so certain. And we should be just as concerned about the immediate threat from biological weapons. Iraq has these weapons."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/18/02

"No terrorist state poses a greater or more immediate threat to the security of our people and the stability of the world than the regime of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 9/19/02

"This man poses a much graver threat than anybody could have possibly imagined."
• President Bush, 9/26/02

"There's a grave threat in Iraq. There just is."
• President Bush, 10/2/02

"The Iraqi regime is a threat of unique urgency."
• President Bush, 10/2/02

"There are many dangers in the world, the threat from Iraq stands alone because it gathers the most serious dangers of our age in one place. Iraq could decide on any given day to provide a biological or chemical weapon to a terrorist group or individual terrorists."
• President Bush, 10/7/02

"There is real threat, in my judgment, a real and dangerous threat to American in Iraq in the form of Saddam Hussein."
• President Bush, 10/28/02

"I see a significant threat to the security of the United States in Iraq."
• President Bush, 11/1/02

"Saddam Hussein is a threat to America."
• President Bush, 11/3/02

"I would look you in the eye and I would say, go back before September 11 and ask yourself this question: Was the attack that took place on September 11 an imminent threat the month before or two months before or three months before or six months before? When did the attack on September 11 become an imminent threat? Now, transport yourself forward a year, two years or a week or a month...So the question is, when is it such an immediate threat that you must do something?"
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 11/14/02

"The world is also uniting to answer the unique and urgent threat posed by Iraq whose dictator has already used weapons of mass destruction to kill thousands."
• President Bush, 11/23/02

"The Iraqi regime is a threat to any American. ... Iraq is a threat, a real threat."
• President Bush, 1/3/03

"Iraq poses a serious and mounting threat to our country. His regime has the design for a nuclear weapon, was working on several different methods of enriching uranium, and recently was discovered seeking significant quantities of uranium from Africa."
• Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 1/29/03

Iraq "threatens the United States of America."
• Vice President Cheney, 1/30/03

Iraq is "a serious threat to our country, to our friends and to our allies."
• Vice President Dick Cheney, 1/31/03

"This is about imminent threat."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 2/10/03

"The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations."
• President Bush, 3/16/03

"The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder."
• President Bush, 3/19/03

"We gave our word that the threat from Iraq would be ended."
• President Bush 4/24/03

"Absolutely."
• White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an "imminent threat," 5/7/03

"Saddam Hussein is no longer a threat to the United States because we removed him, but he was a threat...He was a threat. He's not a threat now."
• President Bush, 7/2/03

Iraq was "the most dangerous threat of our time."
• White House spokesman Scott McClellan, 7/17/03

"We ended the threat from Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction."
• President Bush, 7/17/03


Let start by taking 9 of these right out of here since they were "not" said by President Bush. And that was the statement you were parrying. "Prs. Bush DIDN'T claim Hussein was an imminent threat, he said that we shouldn't wait for him to become one."
And on "top" of ALL that no where in "any" of your quotes did President Bush use the statement "imminent threat"! Now please try again.
on Jan 02, 2006
If Saddam was not an imminent threat, WHY DID WE ATTACK him in early 2003? We had the NO FLY zone in place. U N Inspectors were back in Iraq. If The Mushroom clouds Cheney warned about ( And do not tell us Cheney would have said that if Bush did not approve) were 5-7 years off, why did we have to attack in early 2003 when MOST of the world did not support our actions and we had Intelligence that said there might not be any WMD?
on Jan 02, 2006
and King Liar, Colon Bin Gangrene chimes in with his filth.

Read the 2003 State of the Union Address again (if reading is within your grasp). He MOST CERTAINLY DID say we were going over there to stop Hussein from killing Iraqis.

Davad, your own laughable attempt at trying to disprove my statement is proof positive that you have nothing of substance to add. None of your examples showed that Prs. Bush said that Iraq was an imminant threat. He did say that Hussein's programs were becoming a threat, but not one yet.
on Jan 02, 2006
The reason Bush gave when he asked Congress to approve the War was because Saddam was a DANGER to the United States. The reason Cheney gave was the same. The reason Powell gave before the U N was because he was this great danger. These are the people that lied to America and the World when they had in intelligence that contradicted what they were saying and ignored that intelligence because it did not support what Bush wanted to do in Iraq!
on Jan 02, 2006
Davad, your own laughable attempt at trying to disprove my statement is proof positive that you have nothing of substance to add.


I never said he used those exact words, but the meaning of many of the statements he did make equate to saying "imminent". Scott McClellan speaks for the President and he most certainly said the word.

Now kindly show me where Bush said precisely what you claim he said. I'm looking for exact wording...the same standard that you held me to.

He MOST CERTAINLY DID say we were going over there to stop Hussein from killing Iraqis.


Prs. Bush DIDN'T claim Hussein was an imminent threat, he said that we shouldn't wait for him to become one.
on Jan 02, 2006
I didn't hold you to "exact words" I held you to the facts. Apparently "exact words" games are all you have, Greg Brady.

Prs. Bush did say that there was a threat, but also that we needed to act before the threat was imminent; also, that threat was not the only reason given (contrary to MSM incompetent pissant assertions).


Don't lower yourself by acting like Colon Bin Gangrene.
on Jan 02, 2006

I didn't hold you to "exact words" I held you to the facts.


Ummm yes you did
And on "top" of ALL that no where in "any" of your quotes did President Bush use the statement "imminent threat"!


Those are your words.

The fact is that he did give indication that there was a "serious danger", "grave", and "urgent" threat. Whether he actually used that specific word is irrelevant. The meaning is virtually the same. You are the one who started in about exact words, saying he never said there was an imminent threat.

I'm still waiting for you to show me where Bush said we were going there to stop him before he became an imminent threat.
on Jan 02, 2006

How many troops were in Saddam's army when we entered Iraq?   30,000?  I think it was numbered at 300,000.   '

Where are they now?  I dont think that 270,000 of them are in Cuba.


Have you considered the idea that perhaps the Iraqis you are looking for, who were born in Iraq, grew up in Iraq, fought in Iraq, and who you don't think are in Cuba, are, perhaps, in Iraq?
on Jan 02, 2006
Danger to America.


Stage One---An apparent threat to be addressed. One that virtually EVERYONE inside the Capitol Building, all using the same Intell sources, had agreed upon for years.
That is, until no WMDs were found and the Dems started smelling the blood of a hated President in the water. Then the cries of "foul" started.


Saddam was evil and violated UN Resolutions


Stage Two---Another two good reasons, and ones that should have been used about, oh, six or eight years before.
But no, there was money being made then, and more to come.


Spreading Democracy


Stage Three---We got rid of the bad guy tyrant we sadly supported before. Let's help these people find their way to a better existence. Only you and people like you could find something wrong with that, Col.
on Jan 02, 2006

I didn't hold you to "exact words" I held you to the facts.


Ummm yes you didAnd on "top" of ALL that no where in "any" of your quotes did President Bush use the statement "imminent threat"!


Those are your words.


Actually "why" don't you get your facts STRAIGHT and pay attention! Those are MY words, not his! You may apologize to ParaTed2K now.


The fact is that he did give indication that there was a "serious danger", "grave", and "urgent" threat. Whether he actually used that specific word is irrelevant. The meaning is virtually the same. You are the one who started in about exact words, saying he never said there was an imminent threat


You missed a very key phrase here: Virtually the same is NOT the "same as" now is it. NONE of what you quoted even comes close to the meaning of the word imminent. Now be a good boy and do try again.
on Jan 02, 2006
Those are MY words, not his! You may apologize to ParaTed2K now.


It's not as if I insulted him or anything. Unless you think confusing you with him is an insult to him. Do you speak for him? If not then screw off, if so then what's the difference who said what? You guys basically said the same thing anyways.
on Jan 02, 2006
Those are MY words, not his! You may apologize to ParaTed2K now.


It's not as if I insulted him or anything. Unless you think confusing you with him is an insult to him. Do you speak for him? If not then screw off, if so then what's the difference who said what? You guys basically said the same thing anyways.


"Screw-off"? Why don't you "piss-off" you bloody poofter! And just an fyi....we did NOT say almost the same thing. So bugger off mate! Sorry Simon!
on Jan 03, 2006
you bloody poofter!


poofter??? Ouch! That one cuts me so deep.
on Jan 03, 2006
Stevendedalus, once again you show that you're not above a lie if it suits your purpose.

Prs. Bush DIDN'T claim Hussein was an imminent threat, he said that we shouldn't wait for him to become one.
Neither did I say he was an imminent threat; I clearly referred to WMD. Take back your slur--and you have a hell of a nerve adding insult to injury with "once again."
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