The journey from there to here

Well, the reparations movement is gaining momentum. Of course, it's being retitled "restitution" because, of course, the African American community wants an easier sell.

I have a whole crudload of problems with restitution. The fact is, virtually all of us have ancestors who were oppressed, and would have just as valid a case for such "restitution". The descendants of indentured servants, of Irish immigrants in the 19th century, of Chinese railroad workers...the list goes on.

One of the most fallacious arguments of the "restitution" crowd is that they want the cotton pickers from the plantations to receive a portion of the money from the companies that profitted off of the plantations. The idea is that the slaves would receive the money they would have otherwise been able to make and pass onto their offspring.

Excuse me? I don't know of many WHITE cotton pickers that made a fortune at that trade. Unskilled labor is unskilled labor, and rarely is there a substantial fiduciary legacy to pass on.

But the thing that concerns me about reparations, restitution, whatever you want to call it, is that the United States Government has ALREADY GIVEN African Americans far more financially than they would get through any courts. The bill is MORE than paid in full...and we didn't even have the benefit of due process.

African Americans are given priority access to jobs and education in this country due solely to the color of their skin. This sets them up on a MORE than equal footing with their white counterparts, as they can attend better schools, receive more scholarship and grant money, and fast track into the job market and up the corporate ladder due to what is nothing more than an accident of birth. And not ONE African American living in this country today was born a slave within the borders of the United States of America.

If the US government caves to the pressure to offer restitution to the descendants of slaves, then they will have started down a slippery slope that could well mean the end of the free market as we know it. Women were oppressed for FAR longer historically than blacks, and just about all of us have in our genealogies some racial or ethnic minority that experienced oppression. Then there's the added fact that all it would take is a few generations of a "restitution" minded society before whites had equal claim to sums of money from the same blacks that had extorted money from them. It's the same "eye for an eye" mentality that makes the whole world blind that many in the restitution fold like to quote frequently.

I believe strongly that we should work to have a society where equal opportunity is the standard for all Americans. And I believe we've come pretty close to that point already. A look in the boardrooms of major US corporations shows a mix of races and of gender and culture. The fact that that is not enough is more than enough evidence that the factions that press for reparations don't want EQUALITY, they want SUPERIORITY. And that's a road we've already been down and failed; we don't want to continue down it.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 12, 2005
Yea, I noticed the terms changing.  But I cannot see that restitution is any more palatable to most people.  I mean if you look at it one way, all early americans were enslaved by the British (Taxation without representation).  So do we now go back to england and demand reparations?  If they do go down this slope, I think we should!  Just think of all the mayflower madams that could then retire!
on Dec 12, 2005

Yup, yup, yup.

I should go back and claim the land of my great great grandpop who was run out of Mississippi during the Reconstruction because he paid his hands in greenbacks rather than company scrip...or the lands of my ancestors who were run out of Scotland...or a little piece of Israel for my Jewish heritage, or of some Arabic country for my arabic heritage.

Hell, I've got enough oppressed ancestors that I could make a living off of this kind of thing. Someone get me the address of Sharpton's stylist! I'm a man on the move!

on Dec 12, 2005
One word for all the descendents of Europeans: Serfdom!
on Dec 12, 2005
it's kind of cute that if they actually do extort reparations from corporations and the government, it will actually be people who supported the civil rights movment, and blacks themselves who end up paying the bill for this.

It would be the most bitter irony that successful black Americans, who overcame their history, would be paying extra taxes and losing dividends to make up for slavery that their own ancestors tolerated...
on Dec 12, 2005
I don't agree with reparations however I can understand the demand for it, even though at this point in our history, and I'm not talking only African American history, I'm talking about American history, it is pointless.


"The idea is that the slaves would receive the money they would have otherwise been able to make and pass onto their offspring."

You're right they would not have been able to because they were not allowed to keep anything they owned much less hold on to it for their offsprings.



"the United States Government has ALREADY GIVEN African Americans far more financially than they would get through any courts."

You mean some actually got money and got rich off of this? Wow! Where are they? Or are we talking the actual right to getting an education and being given a job because they can read? Wow!


"African Americans are given priority access to jobs and education in this country due solely to the color of their skin. This sets them up on a MORE than equal footing with their white counterparts, as they can attend better schools, receive more scholarship and grant money, and fast track into the job market and up the corporate ladder due to what is nothing more than an accident of birth."

Oh yes, you mean they were handed jobs that actually gave them titles and privileges? Oh yea they didn't have to work at all because it and everything was handed to them because of their skin color? Wow!

They didn't even have to work at all for it, we're talking that Amendment that had everyone and still do up in arms? Hmmm....


Forgive the scarcism Gid but some of your statements are wide open here!


"If the US government caves to the pressure to offer restitution to the descendants of slaves, then they will have started down a slippery slope that could well mean the end of the free market as we know it."

This much I do agree wholeheartedly with!

"Women were oppressed for FAR longer historically than blacks.."

Yes, White women were oppressed but given and had more freedom." But I'm oh so glad that women fought for and are free, at least in this country today. Blacks and Whites stood side by side and fought for this freedom.


"I believe strongly that we should work to have a society where equal opportunity is the standard for all Americans. And I believe we've come pretty close to that point already."

I absolutely agree with you on this point too Gid.


"The fact that that is not enough is more than enough evidence that the factions that press for reparations don't want EQUALITY, they want SUPERIORITY."

No, they don't want SUPERIORITY, they are looking for a quick way to get rich, money, something to hold on to to help them with their bills etc. But are they entitled to it? That is the question. A lot of people say no way, a lot of black americans included! We are way pass that stage. However, something should be done to invest in the future of people in our country. Not because of their race, but other factors, because our country can do with the upliftment of people who try to but cannot help themselves. And I'm not talking about the lazy-ass drunk or the drug addict. I'm talking about education, yes, again with education because it's a mess right now, jobs, skilled jobs. There are other things that needs to be done and not just for Blacks, for everyone, for our children.
on Dec 12, 2005
You mean some actually got money and got rich off of this? Wow! Where are they? Or are we talking the actual right to getting an education and being given a job because they can read? Wow!


Actually, a father daughter duo here in Virginia tried it. She got $500,000 before the IRS figured out it was a scam. She is now doing time in a federal pen.
on Dec 12, 2005
I agree with Reparations/restitution... whatever...

Just as with the payment the government made to the Nissei of WWII, I think that any living person who was legally enslaved in the United States as part of an openly traded institution of that slavery should be paid an amount equal to the total sum they would have earned (considering time working), to include interest (based on the prime rate for each year since the day the slave was freed). And I think it should be indexed for inflation (by year) to today.
on Dec 12, 2005
What world do you live in where African Americans are " on a MORE than equal footing with their white counterparts, as they can attend better schools, receive more scholarship and grant money, and fast track into the job market and up the corporate ladder due to what is nothing more than an accident of birth. And not ONE African American living in this country today was born a slave within the borders of the United States of America." I want to live there.
on Dec 12, 2005
What world do you live in where African Americans are " on a MORE than equal footing with their white counterparts, as they can attend better schools, receive more scholarship and grant money, and fast track into the job market and up the corporate ladder due to what is nothing more than an accident of birth. And not ONE African American living in this country today was born a slave within the borders of the United States of America." I want to live there.
on Dec 12, 2005
Reparations are for those who are worse off now as a result of their ancestors being enslaved. In that case, the prerequisite for receiving any reparation money should be forced repatriation back to West Africa, where they will receive a monthly stipend on a debit card from a nearby US consulate. Additionally, they should not be allowed to spend any money in a nation that "profited" off of slavery.
on Dec 12, 2005
Additionally, they should not be allowed to spend any money in a nation that "profited" off of slavery.


Good point!
on Dec 13, 2005

Oh yes, you mean they were handed jobs that actually gave them titles and privileges? Oh yea they didn't have to work at all because it and everything was handed to them because of their skin color? Wow!

I didn't say they didn't work at all but that rewards were given disproportionate to their work. And YES, many scholarships have been given SOLELY because the recipient is black.

You mean some actually got money and got rich off of this? Wow! Where are they? Or are we talking the actual right to getting an education and being given a job because they can read? Wow!

No, I mean the TRILLIONS of dollars in welfare payments we've spent over the last 40 years paying them money to do NOTHING.

 

on Dec 13, 2005

And not ONE African American living in this country today was born a slave within the borders of the United States of America."

PLEASE show me evidence of one LIVING African American in this country who was legally enslaved by the laws of this country.

 

on Dec 13, 2005
The assumption behind reparations is absurd anyway. The idea that someone today is owed money for the work of ancestors, as if it would be some significant amount of money is ridiculous.

Lets take a completely hypothetical situation here. Lets say we have Man A who worked as a cotton picker as a slave. Now, I lack actual money figures, but lets assume that at the time the hourly wage was 50 cents per hour (more likely a per day pay, but we'll give it the benefit of the doubt). Lets also assume that the man worked 80 hour days for 50 years (again, probably a high number, but we're giving them the benefit of the doubt here) and stopped working in 1800.

That comes to an annual salary of $2,080.
Assuming he NEVER spent a single cent and saved it all, his lifetime earnings and savings would be $104,000
Now, lets say he put it in an interest generating bank account with a steady 4% annual interest rate. After 205 years, he'd have $956,800

Now, that's assuming he never spent a cent to support his family, never bought any food, never had any expenses of any kind for him or those he supported for his entire life. We're also assuming that his descendants would never touch that money and would just leave it in that steadily growing account, that by the way survived the Great Depression with no adverse effects.

So then, and only then would you be looking at a real chunk of change "owed" for the work of ancestors. There are any number of adjustments to that calculation to make the end-result more realistic, but as you tweak the numbers and the assumptions, you get closer and closer to $0.00 at the end of the whole thing.
on Dec 13, 2005
Don't forget the lawyers' share...That takes it down to about $670,000, to be divided among probably hundreds of descendants per slave. A check that's already been paid in scholarships, in "affirmative action" and in any number of government programs designed to "level the playing field" that have been nothing more than racism of a different stripe.
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