I Don't Like the Way You do That, so it MUST be WRONG!

Published on September 25, 2005 By Gideon MacLeish In Current Events

Ok, now I'm not only irresponsible, but isolationist and counterproductive.

Add "pissed off" to that list of character traits.

You see, our founding fathers greatly valued the rights of the individual, and wrote the constitution (hypothetically) around the preservation of those rights. Sadly, too many Americans want to strip away those rights based on what THEY feel is important.

Not everyone in this country qualifies for a $40,000 a year job. In fact, much of our country's labor is provided by individuals who make less. Teachers, firefighters, and police officers are among the extremely valuable professions where entry level wages often start below $35,000. Our military, and state level politicians in some states also make wages that aren't high above that threshold.

And yet, there are those who would devalue, belittle and criticize Americans who try to make do on less, regardless of the contributions those Americans make to the economy. If I ever have a loved one in a nursing home, I am going to be grateful for the $8-10/hour CNA who renders quality care regardless of the size of the paycheck.

And I would never, EVER assume that ANY of those individuals is UNFIT to parent their children, or that the steps they are taking to try to live within their means are "isolationist and counterproductive". Heck, I live in a county where the median household income is about $22,000...according to some of these individuals, the government should just go door to door through the poorer sections of town here and strip children from the arms of their loing parents...so much for democracy, eh?

We give a lot of lip service in our schools to catchphrases such as "tolerance" and "diversity". The state of Texas even requires the public school students be taught good citizenship. How can one be a good citizen when they are making value judgements on another person's lifestyle with very little knowledge of the individual? How can we claim to be tolerant or respect diversity when we turn our noses up at an entire class of people, many of whom are VERY hardworking (Don't think so? YOU take over the factory worker's job for the night)?

Your rights end at my property line, mister, and I'd thank you to let me live my life as I see fit this side of it.

Comments

bakerstreet

on Sep 25, 2005

You know I dig ya, Gid, but you have to be fair here.

1) Isolationist: How can you really deny this? In the blog in question you talk about removing yourself from reliance on society. You have stated your purposeful rejection of public school, etc in the past as well. Maybe you don't see it, but you project isolationism through your rejection of these things. I read your blogs, and I agree with 90% of everything you believe, and I have to say you are isolationist, at least in terms of what you give us to know of yourself.

2) Counterproductive: Debateable, sure, but like the firewood thing, we both know in the time it takes you to find, cut, haul, and split a truckload of wood, you could make much, much more in a traditional job. A truckload of wood costs 30-40 dollars here. How many hours will you spend heating your house in such a way.

To you, that seems like a fair trade for self-reliance, but you have to be honest with yourself and see that it is counter-productive to choose a path that takes more time with less benefit. That's not to say that less isn't more, but in the end the word "counterproductive" is about productivity, and objectively the shoe fits in your case.

I'm not saying it isn't right, or isn't worth it. That's for you to decide, but you have to see things objectively, especially if you are interested in politics and swaying people to your point of view. You can't just rely on people to see things the way you do, you have to make them see things the way you do.

To many people, you posts would seem isolationist, even paranoid, and your attitude toward traditional employment and personal finance WOULD seem counterproductive. Not wrong, mind you, but you have to see it objectively.

Gideon MacLeish

on Sep 25, 2005

In the blog in question you talk about removing yourself from reliance on society. You have stated your purposeful rejection of public school, etc in the past as well.

You need to read what I say, in context, though. I have never encouraged anyone to homeschool without stating the need to be involved with local support groups. That's not isolationism, not by a longshot.

And I do not talk about removing myself from reliance on society, simply from consumerism. I am talking about using the resources we have to the fullest, which benefits the community at large.

To many people, you posts would seem isolationist, even paranoid, and your attitude toward traditional employment and personal finance WOULD seem counterproductive. Not wrong, mind you, but you have to see it objectively.

Actually, my attitude towards traditional employment isn't counterproductive at all. I enjoy "traditional employment"; I just feel that a career should be more than just a means to an end; which is why I am sacrificing financial gain to try to work towards a writing career.

As for paranoid, baker, it ain't paranoid when they ARE out to get you (said somewhat tongue in cheek). When I write, I try to address LEGITIMATE, documented abuses of power, rather than hypothetical abuses of power (which is why I didn't oversell the whole REALID Act opposition, for instance...while I still don't like it, even I will admit that MOST potential abuses are a bit of a stretch). But I feel that an objective look at our government shows many agencies at many levels that are at, or near, the point of unconstitutional abuses of power.

I do try to see it objectively, though, and I still feel the response to the article in question was grossly untrue. Paired with the other individual's continual response (which, I will add in all fairness, has FAR more negative response than positive...as indicated by his rating, which is dropping quicker than gas prices are rising), they were comments that deserved rebuttal.

Moderateman

on Sep 25, 2005

how about you epitomize the spirit that made america great. a trait that is being lost to most americans

yer self reliant as much as you can be.

citahellion

on Sep 26, 2005

Since I was the one who mentioned Isolationist and Counterproductive, let me be the first to say: Dude! Don't get your undies in a bundle.

bakerstreet

on Sep 26, 2005

I'm not saying home schooling is anti-social or paranoid, LW. I'm not even saying that Gid is those things. You have to admit, though, knowing our society as we all do, it shouldn't be a surprise that someone would think Gid's overall vibe is both isolationist and counterproductive.

People don't understand what Gid means by "commercialism". Heck, I barely do. As for "counterproductive", go talk to ericseba. If you think the average American is going to understand the benefits of "doing without" to keep to a personal ideal, well, you just can't think that...

I wasn't really posting any judgement on Gid's ideas. I think he is making life harder for himself, but I also understand why he is doing it. My only suggestion was to not be as exagerated as commercialism, only in the other direction.

citahellion

on Sep 26, 2005

To expound a little further on my previous comment(s)...

If you look carefully on the other thread, you may note that I actually said "I *could* call it isolationist and counterproductive", and then made a few points toward that argument; most of which had to do with the repercussions of a large majority of people choosing the same lifestyle that Gideon is espousing. I have absolutely nothing against anyone as an individual choosing to be more self-sufficient, though. My only real issue is that most of the people who are likely to do it are the ones who don't stand to gain anything in real personal development from it. (Developing their confidence, self-reliance, problem-solving abilities, crisis management skills, etc.)

ParaTed2k

on Sep 26, 2005

Teachers, firefighters, and police officers are among the extremely valuable professions where entry level wages often start below $35,000.

Should any Social Worker question your ability to raise your kids effectively on such low wages, ask them when the government is coming to get their own. ;~D

Gideon MacLeish

on Sep 27, 2005

I think he is making life harder for himself, but I also understand why he is doing it.

Well, that's a subjective opinion, something I'm sure you'll readily concede. I have a family history of short lifespans and heart problems, so naturally when I felt the onset of those hereditary problems in my late twenties, I realized something had to change if I wanted to live long enough to watch all of my children grow and have children of their own.

I couldn't do it by working 60 hours a week just to reach the next threshold of financial success; that was doing me in quickly enough as it was. The thing about cutting your own wood is, it may not have many financial rewards, but the reward of stopping to appreciate the world around you because your life isn't ruled by a clock is more than ample compensation.

I don't judge those who do choose to seek money first; heck, if I had guarantees of a long life and a retirement, I might be counted among their number. But there are no guarantees in life, and I personally don't want to end my life knowing that I never lived it.

That may not be an ethos everyone understands, but it's MY ethos, and that's what's important. Furthermore, that's what I've been driving at in this thread.

Gideon MacLeish

on Sep 27, 2005

My only real issue is that most of the people who are likely to do it are the ones who don't stand to gain anything in real personal development from it. (Developing their confidence, self-reliance, problem-solving abilities, crisis management skills, etc.)

I don't know if I'd totally agree with that, but I see the point you're trying to make, at least. Thanks for clarifying.

ericseba

on Sep 27, 2005

go talk to ericseba.I'd rather not, if you don't mind.

I don't kiss ass well enough for LW's taste.

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