The journey from there to here

I have long used the term "victimless" crimes to discuss nanny legislation I would personally prefer to see abolished. While I knew the term was less than perfect, I used it as it was a generally accepted term with which most readers could identify.

But, as we learn, we grow and evolve, and one of my latest readings has been the Peter McWilliams book "Ain't Nobody's Business if You Do", which speaks of consensual crimes in America. He uses the term "consensual" crimes because many defendants have used the fact that their crimes were "victimless" in instances where they were most decidedly not, in addition to the fact that, to some degree, virtually everything in the category has a "victim" on some level if you want to call them that (although, in the case of consensual crimes, the "victim" is usually onesself).

And so, as I thought about it, I felt it necessary to blog this change of terminology, in part to explain why the terms have been changed, and also to clarify the fact that when I speak of "consensual" crimes, I am speaking EXPLICITLY of adults who are capable of making an informed decision for themselves (this is necessary for me to state because a certain pedophile advocacy group has been pushing the concept of "consensual" sex with children too young to make such an informed decision; not only do I not want any of my statements identified with or used in defense of said group, I personally wish to see those individuals prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for any actions they may take consistent with their vile beliefs).

I don't want to have to add this qualifier to all of my articles on such subjects, so I'm posting the definition here for later reference.


Comments
on Aug 12, 2005

I just read your comment on another blog about this.  And I agree.  But I dont know where it stops. 

Consensual as in "kill me I want to die".  I am not saying that I have a line, because I really dont.  I am saying this is a gray area that has not been fully explored (due to the puritanical nature of our laws, thank you Mass!).

And I dont want to see a public debate on this issue for the reason of your disclaimer.  There are too many of 'those' that would push it down to the child level.

A shame really.  On an adult level, it is a great concept.  But the whackos would just try to make it an 'everyone' thing.

on Aug 12, 2005

Well, the way I see it is, if someone wants to die, the only legitimate argument we could muster against it would be if the person was property of the state. I don't hold to that idea, and I know you don't either (we were meant to be free men and women, not slaves). While I find it morally repugnant, I would also find a person's written, notarized plea for execution in the manner provided by the executor to be a reasonable defense, personally.

On the other hand, laws against drunk driving, for instance, are NOT "consensual" crimes because they involve the endangerment of others on the road.

on Aug 12, 2005
"Well, the way I see it is, if someone wants to die, the only legitimate argument we could muster against it would be if the person was property of the state."


To play devil's advocate, a person's mental state would be in question as well. I mean, there's nothing really stopping any of us from killing ourselves right now. I think the main problem in the current suicide debate is the "Kill Me" in the "Kill me I want to die".

Sure, if someone is on life support, and has a legally binding, verifible directive, sure. But the more able a person is to do the deed themself, the more dubious I am about the "kill me" part. Those able to do it themselves with ease, and who choose to beg someone else to, should be looked at very dubiously in terms of mental stability.
on Aug 12, 2005

I would also find a person's written, notarized plea for execution in the manner provided by the executor to be a reasonable defense, personally.

Damn!  you would have made a great lawyer!  And yes, I would not convict on that evidence.

on Aug 12, 2005

you would have made a great lawyer!

I'm not sure how to take that (lol)

Baker,

There's not much I can say to rebut your response. The "kill me" was a fairly extreme example (except in the case of advanced directives, where you and I are pretty much on the same page anyway), but most consensual criminals are in prison for far less than such extreme examples.

 

on Aug 12, 2005

I'm not sure how to take that (lol)

The ethical way.  Thanks for the inspiration.

on Aug 12, 2005
This definately does make your terminology more explicit in it's explanation Gid.

As for what that group is doing, I won't bother to comment on it as I find it despicable and I don't want to get all hot and bothered!