The journey from there to here

In response to the flap over social security and privatization, I am inclined to ask if a retirement is something we should take for granted, or if it is something that belongs only to those who scrimp and save to provide their own retirement.

In answering this question, I think we first need to consider the Social Security system's setup. Begun under FDR, the system works in such a way that those who are recipients of the system receive their benefits based on the earnings of the current working generation. While this worked when the program was begun, at this point in time, many American workers have worked and paid into the system for many years, and social security benefits would simply be a payout of what they've already contributed. In short, they have worked for a promise that some politicians seem bent to remove from them.

The privatization argument has met with a good deal of criticism from the liberal camp, and with seemingly just cause. If the system is privatized, the argument goes, then the solvency of the program will be dependent upon the performance of private investment funds and not of the solvency of the US Government. But such a program makes sense to others on many levels. But to most conservatives, the idea has merits in that individuals could potentially have greater control over their retirement funds.

As the member of a generation that will most likely need to be older than 70 IF social security is still around, I'm inclined to dismiss the federal program altogether and work to provide for my own retirement. And I know many who feel as I do (mathematically speaking, I don't stand a very good chance of living far past 70, and would like to enjoy SOME retirement years). And so, to me, all I see is 20 years and counting of wasted contributions to a failed retirement system that have only served to decrease my earnings potential. For this reason among others I'm inclined to advocate for privatization, to have control over even a portion of my contributions to the pool.

Whatever the proposed solution, the other side is likely to debate it till the cows come home. And neither is likely to win. But, to answer the title question as to whether we are OWED a retirement, I would say, the answer is a resounding YES!, assuming we have paid into it as we should over the years. It is a fund into which we invested in trust and from which we should receive; otherwise, the social security withholdings should be nullified entirely and the system shut down altogether.

Respectfully submitted,

Gideon MacLeish


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 06, 2005
Whatever the proposed solution, the other side is likely to debate it till the cows come home. And neither is likely to win. But, to answer the title question as to whether we are OWED a retirement, I would say, the answer is a resounding YES!, assuming we have paid into it as we should over the years. It is a fund into which we invested in trust and from which we should receive; otherwise, the social security withholdings should be nullified entirely and the system shut down altogether.
Respectfully submitted,
Gideon MacLeish


Good to a point. But what about those people already on it? Or those too disabled to work?
on Jan 06, 2005

My proposal, if the system was done away with entirely, would be a "phase out" for the reasons you suggest.

As for the disabled, I have very mixed feelings on that. I know many recipients for whom the aid is a need, but, sadly, I know just about as many that are on SSI because they found a doctor that would sign anyone off.

on Jan 06, 2005

Reply #2 By: Gideon MacLeish - 1/6/2005 3:12:48 PM
My proposal, if the system was done away with entirely, would be a "phase out" for the reasons you suggest.
As for the disabled, I have very mixed feelings on that. I know many recipients for whom the aid is a need, but, sadly, I know just about as many that are on SSI because they found a doctor that would sign anyone off.


Phasing out would be a good thing I think. As to the other.....I think a re-evaluation would be in order. And I don't know how those that you are refering to made it in the first place. As someone who recieves SSI (multiple sclerosis) I had to pass an exam by the SS administrations doctor *before* I was awarded SSI.
on Jan 06, 2005
I don't know how they made it either. It seems to me there's some fraud somewhere in the system.
on Jan 06, 2005
i agree i paid it so its there if not why not its not my problem it is there problem because they mess with it in the first place
if what you say is true about 1 billion being broke down to 3 dollars a person in U.S. then 30 to 40 dollars deducted a wk per person in U.S. averagely then there should be plenty for all who paid and no need for percentage it is yours seems like a american belief so why is there a problem if there is then give us back our money and end of problem.
wmsco
on Jan 06, 2005
i agree i paid it so its there if not why not its not my problem it is there problem because they mess with it in the first place
if what you say is true about 1 billion being broke down to 3 dollars a person in U.S. then 30 to 40 dollars deducted a wk per person in U.S. averagely then there should be plenty for all who paid and no need for percentage it is yours seems like a american belief so why is there a problem if there is then give us back our money and end of problem.
wmsco
on Jan 07, 2005

A couple of issues.  First, the privatization that is being proposed was proposed by a Liberal Democrat, named Pat Moynihan.  Second, the privatization being proposed would in no way have the retirement system dependant upon the market, only those people opting to divert SOME of their funds to it.  Those not opting, and for the part not diverted would still be in  the ponzi scheme.

Finally, I am willing to renounce any claims on SS upon my retirement IF:  Every penny from today on that would have gone into the fund on my behalf, i get to invest for myself instead.  This offer only good for another 2 years.

on Jan 07, 2005

Finally, I am willing to renounce any claims on SS upon my retirement IF: Every penny from today on that would have gone into the fund on my behalf, i get to invest for myself instead. This offer only good for another 2 years.

Dr. Guy,

Excellent point. I think a system of credit for private IRA contributions weighed against one's SS liability MIGHT be part of the answer. It's certainly worth exploring.

on Jan 07, 2005
In answering this question, I think we first need to consider the Social Security system's setup. Begun under FDR, the system works in such a way that those who are recipients of the system receive their benefits based on the earnings of the current working generation. While this worked when the program was begun, at this point in time, many American workers have worked and paid into the system for many years, and social security benefits would simply be a payout of what they've already contributed. In short, they have worked for a promise that some politicians seem bent to remove from them.


Yup, it's been documented many times along the way, but Social Security was one of the biggest pyramid schemes ever.

If it had not been an government creation, it would have been outlawed as fraud and shutdown before it ever was permitted to go as long as it has.

Unfortunately everyone was forced to participate, and as more and more people were in the system, more and more private businesses left the responsibility to Government rather than to themselves.

It's a badly broken system, but hopefully one which will be fixed by reform that is now being pushed by Pres. G.W. Bush.
on Jan 07, 2005
One of the things that needs to be done to social security, and I know this is not right, but it is going to be a major crisis if we can not control it, is to essentially make rich people inelligible for social security. One way to do this would be something like, 50% of all (non social security) income up to $100,000 will be taxed if you choose to accept social security, and 75% of (non social security) income over %100,000 would be taxed if you choose to accept social security
on Jan 08, 2005

Reply #10 By: sandy2 - 1/7/2005 10:39:33 PM
One of the things that needs to be done to social security, and I know this is not right, but it is going to be a major crisis if we can not control it, is to essentially make rich people inelligible for social security


How can you make someone inelligible for something that they are helping to pay for?
on Jan 08, 2005
How can you make someone inelligible for something that they are helping to pay for?


Very easily. Think about it, it happens all the time. I am not elligible for Welfare. As a Business owner, I pay into unemployment yet I am not elligible for that either. I am not elligible for the federal governments college loans, I am not elligible for disability, I am not elligable for many things which are paid for by taxes.
Edit Oh, also, the plan I outlined wouldn't make anyone inelligible for Social Security, it would just provide an incentive to not take it.
on Jan 08, 2005

Reply #12 By: sandy2 - 1/8/2005 3:03:43 PM
How can you make someone inelligible for something that they are helping to pay for?


Very easily. Think about it, it happens all the time. I am not elligible for Welfare. As a Business owner, I pay into unemployment yet I am not elligible for that either. I am not elligible for the federal governments college loans, I am not elligible for disability, I am not elligable for many things which are paid for by taxes. Edit Oh, also, the plan I outlined wouldn't make anyone inelligible for Social Security, it would just provide an incentive to not take it.


Okay, that makes sense to a broad point. The reason your not eligible for unemployment is because your not paying in for you, your paying in for your employees..
on Jan 11, 2005
No, we're not owed a retirement. People used to work until they dropped dead. Sometimes literally. it's nice to have it to fall back on, though. I myself am planning to work until I can;t work anymore, because I by the time I get there, it won't be around.

Seems to me that the governement investing money for your retirement, though, is a little more concrete a solution than the hypothetical "lock box" they came up with a few years back.
on Jan 11, 2005
those of you who have retired or invalid parents are already benefitting from their social security coverage.  if youre in that situation, i bet youre pretty glad they werent permitted to invest any of their withholdings in enron.
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