Tell It Gideon!!!

I am constantly amazed by the way the current "feminist movement" goes out of its way to tell women who chose this lifestyle that they are oppressed and the men that love them that they are horrible opressors. Some of them may be, but they assume that no one could possibly choose that lifestyle voluntarily. Well, except the evil men, of course.

It is astonishing how much intolerace one race of domesticated primates can generate.

Thank God, Gideon. Someone who makes some fucking sense. Can we clone your DNA and start grafting it on to others?

- B

I am so oppressed......

Gideon, I think the people you are criticizing will have trouble accepting that a rational person would enter into a patriarchal relationship voluntarily. The argument here might be that if someone was fully-informed, one probably wouldn't choose to be in a patriarchal relationship without some kind of coercion. However, I see that the real point here is that someone was trying to put words in your mouth and everyone can appreciate how frustrating that is when you're trying to contribute to a discussion. I think the feminist movement (of which, as a man, I feel a part of) definitely needs some new direction. These "feminazis" you speak of do exist and do a great disservice to progressive feminism just as violent anarchists may hinder the progress of social activism. It will be interesting to see how the next generation of feminism evolves in the context of the world environment we find ourselves in today.

-Suspeckted

I am disgusted at the feminazi movement that devalues stay at home mothers and teaches them that their contributions to society are somehow not valued.

It digusts me too.  I (and all the other stay at home moms) AM making a valuble contribution to the world..I'm raising the next generation.  I stay at home out of choice rather than necessity...my home and my family are my career.  My kids are in school all day, and I could be out working instead of home alone...but if I did that then someone, somewhere down the line would suffer, and it would most likely be my kids.

 

dharmagrl: Isn't interesting how people think that once your kids get in school your job as a mom is magically over? Woohoo! The youngest in kindergarten! My kids are raised! Time to enter the workforce!

I would really like to see our society place more value on motherhood (not motherhood as in everyone having kids, motherhood as in loving, cherishing, and properly guiding the ones we do have!) . . . if every mother (not to say that no working mothers do this or that all stay-at-home moms do it, either) made her children a priority and looked at motherhood as a serious profession, I believe it would make such a difference in the quality of our society. Motherhood is such a profoundly important job.

*sorry for being kinda off topic, Gideon*

dharmagrl: Isn't interesting how people think that once your kids get in school your job as a mom is magically over? Woohoo! The youngest in kindergarten! My kids are raised! Time to enter the workforce!

Yes, there's this philosophy that once they're in school they're someone else's responsibility.  That's BS.

I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on motherhood.....you got an insightful for that!

no, it's perfectly ON topic, texas.

My feeling is that a true feminist recognizes the valuye and worth of ALL women, including those who choose to stay at home.

just as a side thing : in canada you cannot change name with only mariage as a reason.

so you can imagine , Hi mistress X are you the mother of kid Y or is mister Y your second husband etc...

And I dont speak of phone calls for Mister X that doesnt exist etc...

100% for the same name but sadly me and my wife cannot have the same because of a stupid law.... made to prevent some people from working a bit more in their life and having to change a name on some registers....

Amen, I was a latch key kid at age 5. It was a lonely experience. I have married many couples over the years and I always always try to emphasis what marriage is. It is an unconditional promise to love and to live for the other. It is a selfless promise which brings security to what should be a very intimate and therefore vulnerable relationships. People want to enjoy sex, the intimacy but they don't want to get hurt. Marriage gives both the intimacy and the security. It is a willing promise, no one forces anyone to get married (in the western world at least). So the two become one because they no longer live for themselves but for each other. It is unconditional love. Those who devalue marriage don't know what they are doing. Its like exchanging treasure for trash.

It's most interesting to me that feminists devalue homemaking in the same way as the dominant male society before it. Feminism, which arose out of the oppression of women, has only joined the political/cultural machine that created their movement in the first place.

So, to me, it's no wonder that there is so much attention getting behavior and a lack of a moral compass when our empty homes or overloaded daycare centers are charged with the duties that only a dedicated parent could provide.

We have sacrificed the immaterial things for the material and the fabric is tearing.

I agree. My brother's kids is growing up to be execellent kids, due to my sister in law's stay at home and taking care of them.

Yes FemNazi very good term hehe. I personally find it incredibly interesting how "Back in the day" there didn't seem to be as many social and community issues of today. I doubt that all the women of my Mother and Grandmother's time felt oppressed. I know my Grandmother was a divorcee single mother who worked her hynnie off to support 2 children without any child support and was able to purchase a home. She choose not to continue a relationship with a womanizing husband and made her way because she did what she had to do.

I'm 31 years old and my Mother was a stay at home Mom which I believe is one of the main reasons why I have a deep imbedded value system. Before anyone jumps down my throat for saying it is not possible for a a women in the workforce to raise a child with one I say unless you have family,close friends or an Au pair sharing your founding beliefs assisting in your efforts in instilling these values then what is the reasoning of reproducing unless fulfilling a selfish need?

Feminism and the base of is simply respecting the choice not devaluing one who does not choose the high ~powered executive position. If you're a strong woman you hehehe already have this position within the home.

I personally know that when I evenually have a child I want to be there in my child's life at home. Now some may say well sometimes this isn't possible I say unless you are a parent who has unfortunately is a widow/widower or had to leave a horrific marriage(In which I also would ask if you fully evaluated your personal relationship prior to choosing to bring life into the world ) then bottomline you do everything to ensure no matter what sacrifices that need to be made to raise this child with strong values.

Femnazi wish to be strong and respected I agree with this yet as long as you are comfortable with who you are regardless of your career/life style choices you will be and this is the bottom line.

~Peace,Love,HEalth & Happiness~ Extended to you all

Enjoy your Day

You guys slay me! You talk about "feminism" and "the feminist movement" as if it is all cohesive and coherent with a definitive position on, well, anything. Plenty of feminists (of a particular persuasion) have done much to validate domestic labor as work. And yes, some have challenged it. But who exactly are these FemiNazi's you speak of? First wave feminists? Second wave? Third wave? But see, even the "wave model" reduces the variety of feminisms to just three.

The characterization of divergent feminisms by such terms as "FemiNazi" is a backlash reaction that many women would be ill-advised to support. Why? Because the truth is, there are a variety of ways of promoting women's issues (as human issues) and resisiting a variety of oppressions (oppressions directly, indirectly, or not at all as a result of the various forms of patriarchy). To assume that all feminists (or even all pro-feminist men) are in agreement on what that should entail is to reduce the complexity of the human condition. Yes, some feminists do this when they promote simple answers to complex issues. Many others do not. But I submit that folks who lump all feminists and pro-feminists together under devil-terms like "FemiNazi" do more harm to women (and, well, all of us) than good.

I think every woman who has posted to this thread is a (kind of) feminist -- or at least, could easily find self-identified feminists with whom they agree. Name names and people who you disagree with, sure. But don't lump all feminists under the same term of denigration.

As for Gideon's original article, yeah the name game is tough. No way am I going for a hyphen when/if we as a country ever get our collective heads out of our asses about gay marriage. My partner (of 10 years) already has a long, hyphenated last name while mine is only four letters long. Further hyphenation hardly seems fair (or sane!). So I guess that means one or the other of us will be taking the other's name. We'll have to figure that out when the time comes. Unfortunately, it looks like we're gonna have a long time to consider our options.

But who exactly are these FemiNazi's you speak of? First wave feminists? Second wave? Third wave? But see, even the "wave model" reduces the variety of feminisms to just three.

This is the reason I use the word "feminazi" as opposed to feminist in this instance...Feminazi's DO devalue the stay at home mom. I have been called a male chauvinist and worse because I haven't forced my wife to drive by this point in her life (although I HAVE encouraged her in every way I know how...to the point of buying her her own car so she wouldn't have to adjust the seat all the time and deal with my Taco Bell wrappers). After 6 months when it became apparent she didn't want to drive, we sold it, as it was essentially a waste of money for the extra insurance. A true feminist, however, recognizes and values the contributions she is making as a stay at home mom; they just assert that she has the right to make that decision, not be forced to it. And there we agree, 100%.

So when I use the term "feminazi" I am referring to a minority of man hating feminists and female supremacists who insist that women should be forced into a lifestyle compatible with their radical, impractical beliefs.