The journey from there to here
I have heard this argument and that argument for the repeal of guns in the United States, basing one's opinions off of irrelevant comparisons with Australia and the UK, which aren't apt. Then I just read a piece on yahoo news about two Englishmen being sentenced to six years in prison for converting blank guns into guns that shoot real ammo. They converted about a gun a day, according to the article for 14 months...that's 420 guns, and sold them to....guess who? NOT law abiding citizens, but criminals. This kind of casts doubt in my mind about the pristine, peaceful Englishman living in a gunless utopia (as if I had ever believed that).

But, for the sake of our fellow bloggers in England and Australia, I would like to present some statistical comparisons to show why elimination of guns isn't a very workable solution in the United States:

The contiguous 48 states in the US (all except Alaska and Hawaii) have a land area of just over 3.1 million square miles. Australia is close, with 2.97 million square miles, but England is considerably smaller, having a land area of 50,319 square miles.

As for population, there are approximately 300 million people in the US, compared to 50 million in England and 20 million in Australia. The population of the United States is more broadly based than Australia, as Australia's population is focused on certain metropolitan regions in the coastal areas and the interior remains sparsely populated. This would make a gun ban far more difficult to enforce due to the sheer logistics. If thousands of foster kids can fall through the cracks, I have no doubt that hundreds of thousands of guns could do likewise.

England and Australia are island nations, and large shipments of arms into their country on a large scale are unlikely to go undetected. In the lower 48 of the US, however, we have approximately 6,000 miles of sparsely protected border; 4,000 with Canada, and 2,000 with Mexico. While the former isn't a serious threat for the import of arms, the latter certainly poses such, given the significant traffic flow between the 2 countries. Given that we haven't been able to stop a $100 billion a year drug trade, it remains unlikely that we would be able to halt arms shipments.

The US consists of a vast largely unpopulated desert area, not far from the greater Los Angeles area, which holds a population of 15 million people. This gives a large region of unfenced area where illegal guns could be cached and through which they could be delivered. I know of several good cache sites within 1/2 hour of my house, and I live less than 50 miles from one of the most secure military bases in the United States, if not the world. All of the above means that if guns were banned tomorrow, criminals would have ready access to all they need, while honest citizens would lose their right to self defense against these thugs.

Add to all of this the long standing tradition of guns in America. Even honest gun owners would be highly unlikely to turn their weapons over to the government, and a door to door search would be necessary for such a measure to be successful. The second amendment to the Bill of Rights was put there for a reason, and we would do well not to forget that.

All of that to say this: the comparisons with England and Australia are not apt because these countries are not similar geographically, demographically, or culturally. If you feel content with the laws of your vountry, that's wonderful, I applaud you. But don't endorse a "one size fits all" government when in this case, one size clearly does NOT fit all.

respectfully submitted,

Gideon MacLeish

Comments
on Sep 11, 2004
To get rid of guns in the U.S. would be about as successful as the "war on drugs"...
on Sep 11, 2004
Shovelheat's right.  So are you, Gideon. 
on Sep 11, 2004
EXCELLENT, GIDEON!!
on Sep 11, 2004
Good point, but the caching is just as easy in Australia. Most places in Oz are within a few minutes walk of a large park with some amount of scrub or bush for concealment.

But I do agree that the population density and the militancy of American gunowners would be a major block to any Australian-style gun control, let alone English-style. If it got to the level where door-to-door searches become necessary then it may as well be called off - no city can afford to lose its police force in the hundreds of ambushes that would follow.
on Sep 11, 2004
no city can afford to lose its police force in the hundreds of ambushes that would follow.


True. Can you even begin to imagine the police going house to house in any southern state saying "we're here for your guns?" Ha,Ha, Right...
on Sep 11, 2004
cacto,

yes, Australia has plenty of places to cache it, but you don't have 6000 miles of largely unprotected land border as we do. Anything that came by water would have to be large scale to be profitable, and large scale shipments pretty much have to come in via your populated areas; transporting them across the outback isn't likely without being spotted.
on Sep 11, 2004

This kind of casts doubt in my mind about the pristine, peaceful Englishman living in a gunless utopia (as if I had ever believed that).


As it should.


Crime in England is just as rampant as it is in the US, the method of delivery is just different.  Where the US has guns, England has knives...and hammers, and muggings and beatings and rapes and pretty much anything else that can be used as a weapon.  Read the British papers sometime; you'll see what I mean. 


 

on Sep 11, 2004
Gid,

Got to think you're wrong on this one, save the militancy of US gun owners. Land mass has little to do with this. Population density and unguarded border per person is far greater in Canada and Australia than in the US.

While your point is well taken that serious criminals won't be stopped by most measures, your more casual criminal will. In any case, this isn't where guns do the most damage. It's in the hands of the citizenry - the drunken Saturday night bust-ups, threats to the wife, the bravado-stricken (or bullied) teenager. Ask police chiefs world-wide if they think having more people with guns is generally beneficial to the population, as a whole. *resounding "NO"*

I think that, world-wide, this is one area where the average global citizen has the most trouble understanding Americans. To them (us), it almost seems like Americans are willfully blind to the damage they (guns) cause, and the statistical increase in homicides that comes the more guns are accessible. I feel it's akin to the tobacco scientists etc. Really weird to view.

Respectfully submitted,

JW
on Sep 11, 2004
Population density and unguarded border per person is far greater in Canada and Australia than in the US


Uh, how so in Australia? Large scale gun shipments have to come in by water, and I think a convoy of trucks across the outback would be damned easy to spot.

Ask police chiefs world-wide if they think having more people with guns is generally beneficial to the population, as a whole. *resounding "NO"*


Actually, most police personnel that I have spoken with in America (and I have spoken with many) are in FAVOR of the citizens owning guns. Cops don't get shot by joe sixpack drunk on a Friday night, they get shot by career criminals.

The thing that the pro gun control lobby has consistently done with guns is thrown the nationwide numbers in our face, without pointing people to the fact that we're a nation of 300 million people. You're wrong about the majority of gun deaths coming from the honest citizens; they don't. The VAST MAJORITY of gun deaths come from people who intended to kill.
on Sep 12, 2004
Uh, how so in Australia? Large scale gun shipments have to come in by water, and I think a convoy of trucks across the outback would be damned easy to spot


Actually most interior food shipments come in via truck convoys or road trains. It wouldn't be technically difficult to smuggle arms in the convoys. It's not like they're checked. Also at most only about 1 in every hundred containers in the ports are checked by Customs, so that's a common way for drugs and illegal firearms to make their way in. Rickety boats and naval smuggling operations aren't necessary because conventional container ships hold a lot more and are less vulnerable to interception. That's why most of the smuggling rings are based in Melbourne and Sydney rather than Darwin.

But then again a porous land border is much more difficult to police, so presumably there'd be less use of legitimate transport for US smugglers.