The journey from there to here

I have to admit to being late to the game on this one, and I find it interesting to wonder why.

For a long time, I have taken a stance on Guantanamo Bay that has been less than popular with the right wingers. Some (a very small minority, but enough to be noted) have even gone so far as to question the patriotism of any who deviate from the Bush administration's hardline position on maintaining the base and denying basic human rights to its occupants, claiming that the fact that they are well fed and well clothed should mitigate the fact that they are being held in prison without benefit of trial (a right, for the record, that emanates not from the Constitution or the Declaration, but from the Magna Carta, a document that predates the DISCOVERY of America by the European world, let alone its settlement and organization).

So it was with a bit of a surprise that I came across a quote in June that called for the closure of Guantanamo Bay "this afternoon". The quote was from June 11, 2007. The source was not Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi, or Charlie Rangel. It was none other than former Secretary of State Colin Powell.

It was not long ago that Powell was respected in Republican circles; indeed I have heard not a few farm belt rednecks declare an allegiance to Powell if he chose to run for President. So it seems odd that Republican apologists have failed to pick up on these remarks from Powell because it is politically inconvenient to do so.

Powell's fall from grace within the Republican Party smacks of a Trotsky-esque exile that casts a longer and growing shadow over an administration that has virtually declared dissent to be treason, and free speech to be abetting the enemy. Powell, however, represents a view that is far more mainline and in accordance with the principles of human rights upon which this country was founded than anything that has escaped the mouth of the criminal from Crawford.

The GOP has failed to learn from the mistakes that have put their DNC rivals into a tailspin. By failing to give voice to opposition views within the party, they are alienating a large share of their voters. They need to listen to voices like Powell's that do not call for the imminent release of Guantanamo detainees, simply an affording of due process, or the consequences could well be that they fail to find themselves unable to win substantial elections.

Human rights, like compassion, is not a left-right issue. It is a humanitarian issue, and anyone who swears allegiance to the flag should have an equal allegiance to the causes that flag represents. Colin Powell gives me hope that there are some among the Republican Party who realize that if we put aside our core principles in waging a war, we have lost the war before the first shot was ever fired.


Comments
on Dec 27, 2007

a document that predates the DISCOVERY of America by the European world

Hate to be picky, but that should be "The English World" as the vikings, very european, are said to have stepped foot over here before the Magna Carta was written.

But what is the quote?

on Dec 27, 2007
Hate to be picky, but that should be "The English World" as the vikings, very european, are said to have stepped foot over here before the Magna Carta was written.


Newfoundland, technically, is not America. It is an island! LOL!

The quote is as follows:

“if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon.”

It's from a June 10 appearance on "Meet the Press".
on Dec 27, 2007
“if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon.”


what do you do with all of the bad guys
on Dec 27, 2007
“if it was up to me, I would close Guantanamo — not tomorrow, this afternoon.”


what do you do with all of the bad guys


Actually, he addressed that. He said he would put them in the federal judicial system, where they have access to lawyers and writs of habeas corpus.

To the critics, he pointed out that we have no problem keeping OUR prisoners in prisons, and they have access to lawyers and writs of habeas corpus.
on Dec 27, 2007
To the critics, he pointed out that we have no problem keeping OUR prisoners in prisons


The Briley Brothers would disagree with him on that.
on Dec 27, 2007
No prison is 100% escape proof, Dr. Guy. Not even Guantanamo Bay.
on Dec 27, 2007
You know how I feel about this, Gid. It's one of the few things that you and I can agree on.

Thanks for making me aware of this. I've always respected Colin Powell as a general (you know, that Powell doctrine, that [if we would have followed it] would have probably had this war over years ago), but this just gives me more reason to respect him.

Powell for president!
on Dec 27, 2007
No prison is 100% escape proof, Dr. Guy. Not even Guantanamo Bay.


I understand that. But I had a problem with the absolute. I do not have a problem with Colin Powell's opinion. He shares yours on this. But as we have discussed before, it is unfortunately not shared by either the legal or international community.
on Dec 27, 2007
It always amazes me that Americans, when in trouble, or offended, always quote their human rights. The people in Guantanamo have no human rights at all. I'll not quibble with why they are there but I do wonder whether the government intends to keep them there forever.

I read a lot of American History and I know some of it is skewed propaganda. Not all of it though: The excesses practised by Helms, Colby and others in the name of "protecting US interests and people" have been exposed in the Cold War and Vietnam. To me Guantanamo is another excessive attempt by the US to punish unthinkingly. If you have a dirty terrorist in jail, shoot him, hang him or hand him over to the Saudis.If you have no clear evidence against him let him go. Don't practise what the Vietcong did to John McCain and many others. Animal behaviour.

What's holding the great CIA up? Are they trying to assuage the balls up they made over 9/11.

Am I getting too close to the bone?
on Dec 27, 2007
It always amazes me that Americans, when in trouble, or offended, always quote their human rights. The people in Guantanamo have no human rights at all. I'll not quibble with why they are there but I do wonder whether the government intends to keep them there forever.


See, and that's my point. We quote our human rights because it was a core part of our nation's founding, ad nauseam. And our founding fathers felt those were HUMAN rights, inalienable and God given, so they shouldn't be revocable regardless of one's national origin, in my opinion.

I disagree that we are as bad as some of these nations, though, ad nauseam. If we were, I wouldn't be able to have this discussion with you. But we DO need to AVOID becoming like them!
on Dec 27, 2007

I disagree that we are as bad as some of these nations, though, ad nauseam. If we were, I wouldn't be able to have this discussion with you.

As bad as?  IN some ways worse.  For we are constantly airing our dirty laundry.  That is almost unheard of for any nation that still exits.  Even those that no longer exist hide it well (think the USSR).

No, America will never be as bad as others REALLY are, but will always be as bad or worse than anyone knows the others are.