The journey from there to here
Published on November 4, 2007 By Gideon MacLeish In Politics

I was 14 years old when I got my first lesson in the bigotted ideals that guided my so called "liberal" family. My brother was learning to drive, and my dad had purchased his first car for him. He was talking with my brother about driving, and contemptuously referring to the "rich bitches" who drove fancier cars to the school.

And it didn't end there. My father never had a kind word for anyone who was successful. They were all liars, cheats, and dishonest in his eyes.

Small wonder, then, that in my young adult years I held the same views. I started out as a part time thug, because rich people were crooks, and they deserved me cleaning the money out of the purse they left on the bureau when they skipped out to a friend's house without locking the door. They deserved to have the money I stole from their cars pilfered or their homes vandalized. They were the crooks, not me, and I was just setting things right.

In my experience with liberals, I have to say that, to a person, every AMERICAN liberal I have known fits that very description (I'll let you liberal foreigners off the hook. In my interactions with you I am deciding there is a marked difference between a "liberal" in Australia or Canada than the US flavor). And a look around the Internet, at left wing sites, or a listen to liberal pundits like Michael Moore or Al Franken would seem to reinforce that admitted stereotype.

I'd like to be proven wrong, but so far the evidence to controvert my theory seems rather weak, as the entire ideological base of the liberal movement (once again, I am speaking of America here) seems predicated on the idea that wealth is gained unjustly and that government redistribution of wealth is the only way to remedy that injustice.

Somewhere lost in the shuffle of political debates is that area called rational thought. An area that respects the free market, but is dedicated to finding ways to make society better and stronger. That sees itself not as the champion of justice but as an arbiter of fair practices. And I'm hoping desperately to find that area.

Is it irrational to assume that there actually ARE people who believe we have a responsibility to help ensure that the poor have adequate access to health care, transportation, food, shelter and employment, but that we should find ways to do so in the private sector because the government is inefficient and top heavy? Is it irrational to assume that there are people who believe we can make social change not through legislation, but through education and a positive, proactive approach? Or am I just whizzing in the wind here?

I hope I'm wrong in my assessment that liberals hate success. I really do. But so far, all I have seen from the left is an utter contempt for success. And until I'm proven wrong, that's the stereotype that will guide my view.


Comments (Page 2)
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on Nov 05, 2007
If someone moves up a class, they are no longer the underdog. The TRUE way for the underdog to win is not to move up a class, but to move those higher up than him down to his level. That's the payback they deserve.
on Nov 05, 2007
Again, though, you strike me as more centrist than most, shades


Ha! I've tried for years to call myself a moderate, but those who know me just laugh in my face.
on Nov 05, 2007
If someone moves up a class, they are no longer the underdog. The TRUE way for the underdog to win is not to move up a class, but to move those higher up than him down to his level. That's the payback they deserve.


Tear 'em down to build yourself up! That's the spirit!! :~D
on Nov 05, 2007

Tear 'em down to build yourself up! That's the spirit!! :~D


Why go up the mountain when you can bring the mountain down to you.
on Nov 05, 2007
Is it just me or does it seem like the word "lazy" is more and more likely to be part of the description when doing a wiki search for "American"?
on Nov 05, 2007
I would do a wiki search to find out, but I'm too lazy.
on Nov 05, 2007
NO, Gid, I don't hate success. (And you know darn good and well I don't. )

I just hate YOUR success, you Libertarian. Stop trying to better yourself.
on Nov 05, 2007
Liberals hate success, unless the successful person can still somehow paint themselves as the victim.
on Nov 05, 2007

Reply By: CharlesCS1
While in a way I can understand and agree with you, I also have to look at the fact that some of these people who you claim are being screwed may not actually feel as if they are being screwed. I mean a person can only be screwed if they think they were screwed. That would be their choice to accept being taken for a fool. They may actually feel it was a fair deal even if it could have been better. I also think that the average person that gets screwed has a responsibility to make themselves educated enough to avoid being screwed. I can't blame a car dealing for selling me a messed up car if I was too ignorant to find out about the car before I bought it. Sure he should have been more responsible towards what he was selling me, but stupid me if I bought it.I think Obi Wan Kenobi said it best " Who's more foolish, the fool, or the fool that follows?"


That’s my point Charles many rich people got that way because they don’t have a problem with stealing a little here and there. And that’s what that is, it’s stealing, even if you don’t get caught or nobody finds out they got ripped, it’s still stealing. Every job I do I could easily add 5% just fudging the numbers a little and there’s no way you would ever find out. Another 5% hiring green contractors another 5% substandard materials and it would be a decade before anyone would be the wiser. This town is loaded with multi millionaire contractors and the ones that didn’t get into developing, got there doing just that.

There’s success and then there’s greed at all cost. Just saying there are reasons for disliking some rich folk other than jealousy or ideology.
on Nov 05, 2007
I would describe you as more of a centrist, actually.


Agreed.


Well...I'm in a unique position...everyone can either love me or hate me for my views.

~Zoo
on Nov 06, 2007
That’s my point Charles many rich people got that way because they don’t have a problem with stealing a little here and there. And that’s what that is, it’s stealing, even if you don’t get caught or nobody finds out they got ripped, it’s still stealing. Every job I do I could easily add 5% just fudging the numbers a little and there’s no way you would ever find out. Another 5% hiring green contractors another 5% substandard materials and it would be a decade before anyone would be the wiser. This town is loaded with multi millionaire contractors and the ones that didn’t get into developing, got there doing just that.


Now I have to disagree with you here. Yes there are people out there screwing the average person out of their money, but those are actual crimes. What businesses do that get people to spend money on a service or product is not stealing.

Stealing - In the criminal law, theft (also known as stealing) is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. Wiki

There is no crime in telling people that this product is worth $15 when they can get it for $8 somewhere else. If the person is uneducated enough to pay $15 then that's their problem. Now if you are told it 's worth one thing and charged something else then that is a crime. These businesses may not have a problem overcharging people but hell, if you could get 20 apples for $2 when you know that you should be paying $5, would you pay the $5 or would you take it for the $2 it's being sold? This would make the customer just as much of a thief by your definition.

How often have you or anyone you know gone to a store and found a product at the incorrect price and have demanded to pay the price listed because it's not your fault it was listed at that price and thats what you found? Does it ever occur to anyone who demands to pay the incorrect price that who ever made the mistake will get punished for it? Consumers can be just as greedy as the vendors being criticized here.

I find it interesting that, like Col gene, you seem to be OK with people staying ignorant and making others pay the price for their ignorance. Sure, I too wish businesses did not take advantage of the ignorance of the average person, I for one don't like doing that when fixing peoples computers. They ask me how much and I say what ever you think is fair. But if they wanna pay me $100 for a job that was probably worth $40, I'm not gonna argue. they were happy with my work and felt $100 was fair. I'm not gonna complain and I bet neither would you.
on Nov 06, 2007
I find it interesting that, like Col gene, you seem to be OK with people staying ignorant and making others pay the price for their ignorance.


You know, I didn’t even disagree GM’s article, I just pointed out there are other legitimate reason why people can dislike the rich, and that’s enough to get me compared with col klink. You twist my words to the extreme to fit your made up a point.

Everything I mentioned, are real crimes. Fudging with figures in a contract is a crime. Charging for quality materials and using substandard materials is a crime. Contracting quality workmanship then using inexperienced workers, also a crime. You can sell anything for any price you want as long as people know what they’re buying. If you sell regular steak for Kobe beef, that’s a crime. It’s called “bait and switch” look it up.
I’m not saying all rich people are criminals but many dance on the line. Other traits that foster dislike and are common amongst the rich are greediness, selfishness and extreme frugalness. All traits not well liked by most people regardless of ideology.
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