'The waiter bellowed down the hall,
"You gets no bread wid one meatball."'


if that lyric isn't familiar to you, gid, you really need to find a recording of 'one meatball' (preferably the josh white version, but dave van ronk and ry cooder both covered it as well).

according to some dude in a folkie forum, this song (originally entitled 'one fishball') may undercut your thesis.


"I think folklorist BA Botkin pointed this out in one of his many collections. "One Meatball" may be the only well-known song in the folk tradition that was written (in 1862) by a Harvard professor. Its author was Martin Lane, and Botkin noted the irnoy of a man highly regarded as a great Latin scholar having all of his "serious" work forgotten and while this comic ditty is remembered (even if the authorship isn't). It eventually became a favorite in music halls, etc. but I don't know who might have recorded early versions of it before it got into Josh White's hands; in any case White is credited with having a million-seller with it in 1944, the same year that it was waxed by the Andrews Sisters (at the same seesion that produced thier hit version of "Rum and Coca-Cola").

either america was already a welfare state in the mid-19th century or professor lane was misinformed as to the cause of poor service. based on his curriculum vitae--also provided by none other than that same some dude--i doubt that's the case.

'(Lane) graduated 1846 at Harvard, and in 1847-1851 studied at the universities of Berlin, Bonn, Heidelberg and Göttingen. In 1851 he received his doctor's degree at Göttingen for his dissertation Smyrnaeorum Res Gestae et Antiquitates, and on his return to America he was appointed University Professor of Latin in Harvard College.

From 1869 until 1894, when he resigned and became professor emeritus, he was Pope Professor of Latin in the same institution.'

I dunno, kingbee. I've never seen such UNIVERSALLY bad service as recently.

It's just atrocious across the board.

disconnect em from the net (easy enuff...and that's the least lil thing you could do to help those sharing your connection to focus on their work)

Oh Gid, you pretty far out there. Did you say you were or weren't racist? I find a great deal of the crap spewn here about black people pretty funny. Things like the horrible service you mentioned and some things I've heard before directed at why black people, I actually experience more in the white people where I live. I remember talking about a white person who was rather ghetto and someone here said 'they were trying to be black'. But with the confederate flag on his hat and swasticas on his wrist, I would beg to differ, but I digress.

I actually don't like the welfare system the way it is. There does need to be more incentive and limitations to it. Where I grew up, there were many poor people on welfare, BUT NO ONE WANTED TO BE. It's not exactly a lucrative existance by any means. And unless you reach a point of hopelessness (and many where I came from did), you are always fighting to get out of your circumstance. But I guess you don't see that from the drive thru window.

Gid, I think you have an argument, but it's aimed at the wrong place.

Well, there's also the race card to be played for many of these 'workers' as well

Where does this continued notion that race is some magical card come from? It's not a card that's used to trump your way out of trouble. If that were true, the prison population in this country would look castly different. My culture is not some sort of convienence, it's a reality I'm proud of. Racism is alive and well and I still face it. Perhaps not every day as my parents did, but I still get slurs (and an occasional rock or bottle) hurled at me. There's no card for that.

UNfortunately, kingbee, Internet connection is kind of important when your main job is troubleshooting Internet connectivity!

Actually, cityguy, YOU would be the racist, because NOT ONCE, in the article, or ANY of my replies, did I mention the RACE of the people I was complaining about. YOU assumed they were black; what does that say about YOU?

For the record, cityguy, the people who inspired this article, at least, were NOT black. My anime watching coworkers are NOT minorities. The ONE coworker in the tech department that consistently DOES her job, is actually a minority. So that shoots your theory down, and it shoots it down cold.

Don't EVER fucking come on my thread and accuse me of racism when you don't have the material to back it up! Got it?

to the others BESIDES cityguy, on both sides: I'm enjoying the discourse.

Where I grew up, there were many poor people on welfare, BUT NO ONE WANTED TO BE.

Actually, I've seen people turn down fairly lucrative jobs because they'd rather draw welfare. But I suppose you'll call me racist for saying that, even though I've seen people of all races with this trait!

Well, look at the facts, LW.

I describe crappy customer service, and cityguy automatically sees a black person and uses it to assume that I am racist. Why did he automatically see a black person, is my question.

The laughable, hysterical thing is that these morons that inspired this article werre (drum roll please)...WHITE! But because I wrote an article about lousy service, cityguy assumed I MUST be talking about black people. What does that say about HIM?

I describe crappy customer service, and cityguy automatically sees a black person and uses it to assume that I am racist. Why did he automatically see a black person, is my question.

Hey Gid, you are totally right. I attributed a comment to you that was not yours. I apologize, will you accept that from me. For the record, I didn't call you a racist, I asked you what you were.

It was actually LWs comment. I meant no ill from it. I didn't think you would go four letter word on me. Even directing that at LW, I may not agree with her, but have nothing but respect from her. Sorry this offended you.

Yeah I can get behind this...its essentially what I was saying, though obviously not well.

Apology accepted.



Well, you need to see things from my perspective, cityguy. It is actually quite annoying when allegations of racism are strewn about everytime criticism of the welfare state is lodged. This inherently would seem to imply that welfare is viewed even by the liberal camp, as being a program for minorities.

You're right when you say that worthless bum-ism would be as prevalant among whites as among other races. But until we seriously ask ourselves WHY we're not going to make any progress in eradicating it.

I believe part of the answer can be seen in history. When welfare (relief) was first implemented, it included government work programs that helped people get back on their feet. Yes, it was imperfect, yes, a lot of graft and corruption was endemic (and there's plenty in our current welfare system, believe me!), but it was an attempt to deal with a very dire time in American history.

When the sense of entitlement began, under the Great Society, is when I believe it started to go downhill. The whole idea of getting something for nothing had a lot of appeal, and even though the government has taken strides in the last dozen years to reduce that, there still are a million ways to exploit the rules.

In continuing on this discussion, let's realize that when I'm talking about the problems with welfare, the problems I'm describing have nothing whatsoever, in my opinion, to do with race. As for others on this thread, well, I can't speak for them.

Keep up the good work, you came in new (to me anyways) and your first order of the day was to make enemies.

No my first order of the day was to post a comment on this article about what I thought and think is a totally irrational and disconnected "argument". So irrational in fact I think its very funny. Your first order of the day was to deliver a personal attack with a side order of completely random liberal bashing rants that made no sense and did little more than demonstrate your obvious hatred for a left of center political idealogy.

And if this is all it takes for you to deem someone an "enemy", some laughable comments about a chicken quesadilla value meal, then you must be living out a highly threatened existence. No wonder you're such a serious minded chap.

And they say Bush is an idiot.

In their hundreds of millions and all around the world, yes they do.

Then I always wonder how come is it that those who claim not to care always have to have the last word?

It doesn't surprise me that you should be so confused by this one. But as much as this might come as a shock to you Charles, OTHER people have opinions too. It is possible to both simultaneously respond to anothers abuse and distortion while not caring about their particular personal opinion. I would have thought this goes without saying but clearly you seem to think yours is the only opinion here that counts.

That said this will be my final word on the matter. So feel free to box my shadow. Just dont take it too seriously though, it is only my shadow.