I guess it all depends on what makes who laugh. But then again, you don't really know if I'm laughing over here or not, with you or at you.

Oh please, clearly you took it seriously. Besides its not so much a matter of not knowing as it is not caring.

Sorry Cacto, I am not a bully. I dont go into a battle of wits with someone who is only half armed.

I could care less who you come along with Dr Guy. Given your propensity to shoot yourself support in the foot Im quite sure this ordinary genius has all that it takes to stand against you. All the more so considering this half armed ally you're referring is probably just another one of your unfortunately disabled arguments.

How does the GOVERNMENT determine this, Tova?

Charity is not the duty of the government, much as we would like to think it is. It is the responsibility of the individual. The idea of confiscating wealth to feed the poor is not charity, it's theft.

As for the welfare state encouraging laziness, you've challenged my thesis, fair enough. Where do I start to back it up? Well, I could point to the numerous studies that have shown how poverty is intergenerational. People raised on welfare are more likely to live on welfare, Tova.

At some point, true compassion demands we encourage people to stand on their own two feet rather than continue to pay them for doing nothing. If we pay them for doing nothing, I can virtually guarantee there will be a class of people who will ALWAYS do nothing.

Welfare encouraging laziness is different than welfare MAKING people lazy, Tova. HUGELY different. The fact is, we are creatures of convenience. All of us, every single one, will choose the path of least resistance to get the things we desire. It's why obesity is so epidemic in our country. The idea of walking two blocks has become repugnant.

When you give people a "free ride", they'll take that ride as long as you give it. And then, because they've grown dependent on the system, it's danged hard to get them off of that train.

I didn't validate your reasoning, btw, because we're saying different things.

Nobody can MAKE you do or be anything. You do that all by yourself. But people CAN and DO enable dependencies that you already have.

See the difference?

Gideon, so you're against Robin Hood? Who can be against Robin Hood?

The rich man laden with a coach full of goodies for Third World countries that got waylaid by Robin Hood.

Example: This Christmas, I'm buying my children an laptop. Because when I buy it, I will really be buying two, one for a child in a Third World country. I can do this because I have the MONEY to do this.

A welfare state would take my money away and give it to some crackwhore, robbing someone out there who really DESERVES my compassion!

Well, Jyth, it depends which Robin Hood it is.

Cary Elwes was a Robin Hood I support, and the foxy Robin Hood is the king of all.

But Kevin Costner? I'm totally opposed.

I could care less who you come along with Dr Guy. Given your propensity to shoot yourself support in the foot Im quite sure this ordinary genius has all that it takes to stand against you. All the more so considering this half armed ally you're referring is probably just another one of your unfortunately disabled arguments.

No, dont need any allies, but knowing your lack of reading comprehension, I can see where you would fear that.  Sorry, maybe next time I will write it in baby talk - more on your level so you understand.

Gideon, a coupla reasons why the customer service might be so bad. Forgive the length of this reply, but it takes some explanation to go beyond the "darn lazy poor people!!" rationale

The entire fast food industry is designed to have the dumbest workforce possible. This is not a conspiracy, but just good business sense to maximize profit. People like the founders of Mcdonald's and A&W discovered that if most of the job was automated and the food as pre-prepared as possible, that they would not need to pay skilled labour wages to their front line staff... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to fill up your coke and shovel your fries, right?

Fast food companies have intentionally made the job as simple as possible for two reasons-

1) So they can pay their employees as little as possible
2) So that employees will get fed up and not stick around very long, thus creating the revolving door effect for staffing. This is no joke, fast food companies plan for their average employee to last anywhere from a few weeks to a few months, and they want it that way. Sure, a small percentage of employees do stick around but most of those will eventually move into management or do the job as a time-filler (like the retiree greeters at walmart for example).

Fast food companies WANT their staff to leave after a short time so that they don't have to worry about paying any kind of benefits, have to haggle with staff for too many raises, or heaven forbid deal with an attempt by the workers to unionize (which does statistically happen if restaurants have enough long term employees)

And it's fine for the company to lose workers left right and center because the job is so easy. You could literally kidnap a random person off the street and put them behind the counter, and chances are that they would be able to learn and do the job in about two seconds. Loud beeping noise means fries are done. Shovel fries into container and give customer change. Wash, rinse, repeat.

The low prices that people pay for fast food explains why the service is so bad, in my opinion. Because the employer is able to pay minimum wage (or less if the employee is on some kind of work release or high school work experience program) and because they don't have to worry about benefits for most of their staff they can charge you less for your meal and still bring in a tidy profit for themselves. Because the pay is so crappy and the job is so mind-numbingly, soul crushingly boring and simple, and the staff are payed peanuts to do it, I don't really blame anyone working in fast food for looking like a zombie or not jumping to attention whenever a customer walks through the door.

Basically, you get what you pay for- pay a small amount, you'll probably get little or no customer service. So if anything I'd say it's not the welfare state that is to blame but the joys of the free market, as that is what you are seeing whenever you walk into a fast food franchise!

Artysim,

I would buy that if I didn't see a steadily declining level of service. It's bad. Really bad. And it doesn't just affect bottom level employees. It's bad at my workplace, as well, something I'm hoping I'm able to turn around without driving myself insane with the hours.

I think it would be naive to cite welfare as the ONLY factor, but I do believe the way our welfare system works enables a workforce that is largely unmotivated to revel in their slothfulness.

Another note: I don't get much better service on a $15 steak dinner than I do on a $1 value menu item at Mickey D's. So, low price isn't the issue.

No, dont need any allies, but knowing your lack of reading comprehension, I can see where you would fear that. Sorry, maybe next time I will write it in baby talk - more on your level so you understand.

Given how many fights you pick Dr Guy, you really ought to learn how to throw a punch. Is this an example of that devastating wit you claim to possess? How dull.

Haha. Tiddler is funny.

If you say so, it would be pointless to argue with one who doesn't care anyways. Then I always wonder how come is it that those who claim not to care always have to have the last word?

Keep up the good work, you came in new (to me anyways) and your first order of the day was to make enemies. And they say Bush is an idiot.

"would" seems to imply an anticipated future or alternative present in which you'd be left nothing with which to buy faux quesadillas.

on the other hand, you seem to be claiming america is a welfare state at present.

i'm confused.

kingbee,

I believe we're headed further and further in that direction.

Are we a complete welfare state? No, thank goodness, but we've got more and more capable people with an increasing sense of entitlement, at least among the people I've encountered.

A further example:

Since Monday I've been running myself ragged with PC repairs, while my coworkers have essentially done nothing in that regard. This means we've gone an entire shift each day with zero PC repair work being done, and I still have to do my other tasks. What are the coworkers doing? Watching movies, anime, etc.

And before you ask, I'm updating tickets and all of the computers are running scans.