The journey from there to here
Well, I'm back, from a long weekend which I will relate as soon as my thoughts congeal properly.

One of the stories I couldn't tackle in my absence was the story of the Hindu prayer offered up in the Senate. I wanted to start the article by saying unequivocally that I don't like it, that it didn't belong in a government institution, and that those who are offended have every right to be offended.

In short, I'm saying what every evangelical Christian is saying right now on the subject.

BUT (come on, now, you couldn't expect me to keep an article THAT short, could you?), now it's time to say what they're NOT saying.

See, I am glad this came about because the prayer underscores what nonChristians have been saying about Christian prayer in the Senate, in an organized, faculty supported fashion in the schools, and in other public gatherings, especially ones where participants are compelled to attend: it is offensive to them, and it has no place in those areas. Now, if it takes place in an atmosphere where attendance is voluntary, that would be one thing. But in the case of the Senate, the legislators (hypothetically) are required to be there (I know, I know...we won't go there...YET!)

I'm not going to sit back with the PC crowd and say the prayer didn't offend me. It's as offensive as all get out. But the reason it offends me is the very reason prayer doesn't have place in houses of government in the first place!
Comments
on Jul 16, 2007
Good point, Gid. So you're saying you don't want ANY prayer in government institutions? (just checking my reading comprehension skills)
on Jul 16, 2007
I don't agree with your stance, but at least yours is not as infuriating as some of the things I've read lately. I can understand where you're coming from - and it's not a world of hate-filled rhetoric, at least. Just libertarian.
on Jul 16, 2007
Does being exposed to someone else's prayer harm the listener in some real way, or does it just 'offend' them? If it just offends them, too bad.


That earns an 'insightful' cookie from me, Sabrina. That's the crux of the whole issue - if you're offended, too f***in' bad.
on Jul 16, 2007

But in the case of the Senate, the legislators (hypothetically) are required to be there (I know, I know...we won't go there...YET!)

Damn!  That would have been much more fun!

For the record, it did not offend me, or cause me to get upset.  Senators (after a fashion) are just citizens like us, and I would like to hear other prayers from other religions.  But while I would, I would not want to force anyone to listen to it that did not want to.  So I agree with you from the perspective of forced to hear it (that goes for any prayer).  Leiberman did not seem to mind all the christian prayers, and at least one member of the house (that I know of), Cantor, does not seem to mind it in his chamber. Getting all members to say that however, may be worse than herding cats!

But personally, I would not mind hearing it.

on Jul 16, 2007
The logical and inevitable consequence of a continued uproar over this thing is that any prayer of any sort will be abolished from the proceedings. I personally think that would be a shame but I'm sure that's what will eventually happen. I do not agree either a freedom from religion stance or a freedom from being offended one but that is of course the direction our society is heading.

on Jul 17, 2007
The logical and inevitable consequence of a continued uproar over this thing is that any prayer of any sort will be abolished from the proceedings.


That is what intolerance leads to. I remember at the start of this congress in Jan, some memebrs of congress objected when one of them used Qura'an for his PRIVATE oath of office (performed in the privacy of his personal office in the presence of his family and friends) and cried out that soon the country will all be converted to Islam. How intolerant can they get? !!!!!

at the end, no one will tolerate anyone else in anything. not in prayers, not in thought and eventually not in living your own way.
Unless of course, sane minds speak up and stop this kind of behavior.

Why would anyone object to a nondenominational prayer? I really cant understand that. we can't tolerate a general invitation for rationality and sucess in whatever we doing? This offends some? and then they get high and mighty when others get offended when their prophet or religion is insulted and say they are crazy and overprotective and tyrants who want to impose their values on others?

this JU community is a great place to see it all. The good, The bad and The ugly..... that is why i stick around.
on Jul 17, 2007
Why would anyone object to a nondenominational prayer? I really cant understand that. we can't tolerate a general invitation for rationality and sucess in whatever we doing? This offends some? and then they get high and mighty when others get offended when their prophet or religion is insulted and say they are crazy and overprotective and tyrants who want to impose their values on others?


No, I said I don't want to see ANY prayer in the Senate chambers, as part of the official proceedings.

It's not a freedom from religion debate, it's an establishment issue. The politicians are free to practice their faith as they please but I believe when a prayer is issued in the Senate chambers, it is a tacit endorsement of that faith.

I could go on about how I think our "Christian" congresspersons are bastardizing the Bible, but that could be a whole VOLUME of books!