The journey from there to here

As the public continues to grow disenchanted with the "Big two" parties, one would think they would be increasingly drawn to third parties. Yet, despite the HISTORIC numbers posted by Libertarians in the great state of Texas in 2006, third parties aren't electing candidates in numbers that would reflect that disenchantment. This despite the fact that the cost to run a grassroots campaign is actually DROPPING rather than climbing. Responsible members of these third parties would be doing their parties a favor if they asked themselves WHY.

I believe that the answer is simply because third parties do not take themselves seriously enough. They don't try to win, but rather they attempt to garner a "protest vote" and in some way prove that enough people are fed up to actually do something.

I first discovered this in 1992, my first encounter with the Socialist Party. I suggested rallies outside the courthouse, pamphlets protesting the electoral college system, and it was all well and good until it was time to head to the courthouse. It was eerily like the scene in "Old School" where a drunken Will Ferrell finds himself streaking to the quad...by himself.

Not surprisingly, the Socialist Party rallied the same level of excitement as a Haircut 100 reunion tour.

Then, several members of the Libertarian Party jumped on to the Free State Project. I was among them. The idea was to move enough activists to a selected state to begin making effective change. We opted out of New Hampshire if it was chosen because of their draconian homeschool laws, and as a result, while we are still FRIENDS of the FSP, we're no longer active with them.

FSP members will note the impact they're making, of course. It makes for good publicity. However, they moved to a state with an independent enough mindset that they actually REFUSED to enact a mandatory seat belt law, and, in doing so, have not received federal funds to maintain their roads. In other words, the state was pretty independent to begin with. Any success they might have had was easily offset by the fact that in 2004, they were one of only two states who failed completely to get Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Presidential candidate, on the ballot of their state (Oklahoma was the other), despite having relatively easy hurdles to overcome, especially for a state that claims to have a large number of activists who have already relocated.

Fast forward to 2006. The Libertarian Party mounted a fairly valiant effort...for a third party, in the state of Texas. But as a candidate I can tell you, while the media support was there, the money and supporters were, well, NOT.

Until third parties take THEMSELVES seriously, it remains unlikely that voters will. To be successful, party leaders need to stop reaching for the 5-10% "protest" vote and start reaching for 50% + 1 VICTORY votes. Until they do that, they're simply grinding their wheels.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jun 05, 2007

Unless Superman (or Girl) arrives on the scene, 2008 is a great year for a third party to do what you want.  This election,more than any in the past 15 years, will be a vote against someone, not for anyone.

Good luck!

on Jun 05, 2007
Remember when Jess Ventura won the governor's race in Minnesota. He looked as shocked as anyone but then he did have problems because he had no support in the congress. There weren't the party loyalties to get legislation pushed through. I do think we're ripe for a strong third party but right now it seems like they are just "also runs" not serious candidates. I think you're right they don't even take themselves seriously as a potential winner.
on Jun 05, 2007
actually gid,,,a sim question was asked in another thread recently...this was the question...



"....why aren't there more independents in office?"



i said this...



Reply #159actually. it has more to do with the 2 majors shutting out independents and 3rd party candidates. it is most obvious in the presidential debates.the debates are run by "the commission on presidential debates." that sounds all nice and official and non-partisan. but it is actually a private entity that has the sole purpose of keeping the debates so controlled that no real damage can be done to the candidates. interaction between candidates is severely curtailed. and all "3rd parties" and independents are kept out of the game. the commission is funded by major corporations that give big dolars to both parties to ensure that no one else can sneak in.the only person who has been able to beat them was ross perot, who had billions to do it with. on the local level, there are many 3rd party / independent office holders. and on the state level, when the money gets a little bigger, ther are still a few that manage to hang in there.but once you get back to the fed level in regards to congress...again, the money gets so big that few can even hope to compete. so, to be a candidate without the backing of the 2 majors, you either have to be mega wealthy, or be content to be in local office.



to add to that...some states do very well locally with independent candidates, particularly libertarians and greens in various area. an example would be north of ya in oregon, where the libertarians hold the following offices and had this to say on their w/p.......



Since 1994, Libertarians running active races in local nonpartisan elections have WON over two-thirds of their races. While local governing boards rarely inspire exciting headlines, they make decisions which directly impact people, businesses, and the economic futures of communities throughout Oregon.Libertarians in office have consistently worked to eliminate or reduce taxes, preserve or expand options for future development, preserve personal freedom, and improve the quality of life where we live. Below you will see a list of Libertarians currently serving in public office.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Elected and Appointed Oregon Libertarians Serving in Public Office Today
Ray Bledsaw, Lake County Planning Commission

Richard P. Burke, Tualatin Valley Water Dist. Board of Commissioners

Paul DeLaney, Willamina Planning Commission

Marc Delphine, Tigard Water District Board of Commissioners

Brad Fudge, Fairview Planning CommissionBrad Fudge, Fairview Citizens' Advisory Board

C. Michael Courtney, Port of The Dalles Board of Commissioners

Inessa Hamilton-Lee, Beaverton High School, Local School Committee

Adam Mayer, Elmonica Elem. School, Local School Committee

Christiana Mayer, Five Oaks Middle School, Local School Committee

Don McDaniel, Port of Astoria Board of Commissioners

Helen McDaniel, Astoria Budget Committee

Stephen Pearson, Cedar Park Middle School, Local School Committee

Stephen Pearson, Tualatin Valley Water Dist. Board of Commissioners

Charles Radley, Tigard Water District Board of Commissioners

Greg Rohde, Elmonica Elem. School, Local School Committee

Richard Sager, Gaston City Council

Marty Soehrman, Colton School District Board of Directors




in my own state, the libertarians don't seem to fare that well. tho a recent attorney general nominee did pretty good a few years back. i stopped going to their meetings a long time ago because i got tired of them being held in resturaunt / bars...so i can see what you say about "taking themselves seriously."



money is a big factor here, there is no doubt, esp as the races get bigger inherently. at the national level, i think that only guys like mike bloomberg have a legit shot cause they can self finance, like perot did.



i think john anderson was the last guy i remember being close to a "normal american" and having a decent run @ president...but that was a long time ago.

on Jun 05, 2007
People also tend to side with parties that have a perceived chance of winning. Many folks feel that voting for a 3rd party candidate is the same as not voting at all or that it is just a protest vote.
on Jun 06, 2007
Sean,

It may surprise you, but I actually DO read the mailings from the LP. I know what the "official" party line is. But I also know the amount of effort a lot of candidates put into getting the word out.

Are police going to arrest them for grassroots campaigning in the city park because they're secretly on the payroll of the big two? Are jackbooted thugs going to escort them to some gulag because they get on a local radio station. Come on, Sean, your analysis is the official party line, and, frankly, the official party line needs to go. There are ways to get the word out other than standing outside the convention centers and pouting, and I believe that any third party that seriously wants to elect their candidates to office will FIND these ways.

I am and remain a loyal Libertarian, Sean, but I differ with them on this (just as you differ with them on just about every political issue besides legal marijuana). When third parties engage in such spin, they prove themselves to be little better than the big two, IMEABO.
on Jun 06, 2007
To continue, Sean, I am extremely tired of you parading around acting like you're here to "educate" us "peasants" on the Libertarian Party because we couldn't possibly know anything. It has left a VERY bad taste in my mouth, and, honestly, not infrequently made me rather hesitant to call myself a member of the same party as you. If you were the rule, rather than the exception, I assure you I would NOT be Libertarian.

You know how much money I had outside my own in '06, Sean? Not a thin dime. In a two way race. If that doesn't indicate a party that doesn't want to win, I don't know what does.
on Jun 06, 2007
Are police going to arrest them for grassroots campaigning in the city park because they're secretly on the payroll of the big two? Are jackbooted thugs going to escort them to some gulag because they get on a local radio station. Come on, Sean, your analysis is the official party line, and, frankly, the official party line needs to go. There are ways to get the word out other than standing outside the convention centers and pouting, and I believe that any third party that seriously wants to elect their candidates to office will FIND these ways.


that's why i brought up the oregon LP, they seem to be winning elections, not just standing around and pouting.

I am and remain a loyal Libertarian, Sean, but I differ with them on this (just as you differ with them on just about every political issue besides legal marijuana).


take that back. that was a cheap shot. fact is that i am "with the party" on a host of issues. do i have to list them or are ya gonna admit that was a cheap shot with no basis in fact?

just because i won't concede that social security shouldn't be abolished or handed over to wall street or believe that health care is a much different issue than it was in 1776, doesn't put me at the odds you want to paint. yes, i support the social / civil libertarian side of it, and indeed, that is what orig. led me to the party. but on the war, taxes, and other issues, i've been very supportive.

but unlike some in the party, i don't use a libertarian philosophy as a justification to be nothing more than a cheapskate or turn my back on others. look at how often i write concerning the constitution. and just because i may not interpret things the way any party or influence group does for whatever reason, doesn't mean that i respect and honor the constitution any less than any other libertarian or anyone who believes in the constitution.

and maybe you should check yourself and stop letting your loyalties to some on here cloud that judgement, which has really fallen short of late. and your pissy attitude towards me is merely a reflection of that lack of judgement. and your writing of late, which usually has a higher standard, has suffered for it.

i dunno, maybe you are one of those who think it's entirely proper to have a "political meeting" in noisy bar where no one can even hear what is being said and there is more concern with getting the next beer than anything else...until the end of the evening, when it's time to scurry out and stick others with the check.
on Jun 06, 2007
by the way sparky...this is what the libertarian party lists as it's "current issues"...i happen to agree with all 3...i put some of the things i've said recently or esp. agree with in bold...

Current Issues



The War in Iraq


Like most Americans, Libertarians are appalled by the actions of the terrorists on 9/11. However, it is important that we ask ourselves whether Osama bin Laden or the Iraqi people are our enemy.

There has been a great deal of controversy about so-called facts presented by the White House about the initial cause for military action in Iraq; it is time we look at some real facts. We are indeed nation building. We are playing policeman in a civil war. We have attacked and killed thousands of people in Iraq because of the actions of a terrorist from Saudi Arabia. We have chased non-existent weapons of mass destruction instead of the terrorists who killed nearly three thousand Americans on 9/11. We are creating more terrorists on a daily basis because of our intervention in Iraq. In short, we went after the wrong bad guys and are now stuck in the middle of someone else’s civil war.

While American public opinion has radically changed about our continued occupation in Iraq, the President wants to send a "surge" of troops to Iraq, while adding nearly 100,000 new members of our armed forces to the ranks. The Democrats don’t seem poised to do anything which will substantially change our presence in Iraq. It is time for U.S. forces to withdraw from Iraq as quickly as possible in a manner consistent with the safety of our troops.

Civil Liberties

The first ten amendments to the United States Constitution, commonly known as the Bill of Rights, significantly limit the power of the federal government to usurp the rights of private citizens. The Bill of Rights provides the well-known freedoms of speech, of the press, assembly and religious worship. It also provides protections against unreasonable search and seizure, cruel and unusual punishment, compelled self-incrimination and double jeopardy. It guarantees the right to an impartial jury and denies the government the ability to compel self-incrimination.


Over the past few years, we have seen repeated government attempts to circumvent or even blatantly disregard the most basic of our guaranteed personal liberties. Rarely a day passes where there isn’t some major media mention of Guantanamo Bay, the Patriot Act, the Real ID Act, secret prisons, the use of torture or domestic spying.


The government may snoop into the most personal of your mail or your e-mail and you won’t even know they were there. People are arrested and held without trial or legal representation. Sometimes they are even tortured. They can now use your cellular phone as a bugging device, even if you aren’t currently talking on it at the time.


It is essential that we repeal the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act and that we restrain the Executive Branch to the limitations set forth in our Constitution.


Fiscal Responsibility


When the Democrats previously controlled Congress, they spent a lot of our hard-earned money on entitlement programs and pork barrel spending. When the Republicans gained control of Congress, they spent even more of our hard-earned dollars in the same reckless manner. As the Democrats have just regained control again, we will have to wait to see what they do. However, their actions don’t look too promising at this moment.

Of course, Congress can’t take the entire blame for bad spending bills. The President is required to sign bills into law, and the current President never found it important enough to veto even one bloated Republican spending bill.

While we are amassing a tremendous federal deficit, many Americans are forced to make tough decisions about retirement, health insurance and even the education of our children. It is imperative that we immediately cease the wasteful federal spending so we can pare down the national debt and significantly increase the amount of our own money we get to keep. The federal debts aren’t going away and there are but two choices we can make. We can either tighten our belts a bit today or force our children and grandchildren to starve tomorrow. It’s time that we start expecting our representatives in Washington to act with the national checkbook as we do with our family checkbooks.

WWW Link and something from me for your viewing pleasure...
on Jun 06, 2007
take that back


Take it back? Sorry, I don't take orders. Something about the idea of people not using "force" to achieve their objectives. Can't remember where I read that, though (I CAN, actually...please do not offer me a primer on the LP again, Sean, I am not some 12 year old kid who needs a polysci lesson!)

I have seen you list your policies. Almost line for line they resemble the Socialist Party far more than the Libertarian Party (Universal Health Care, government regulation of business, go down the line with it). I have yet to see you substantially differ from DNC objectives on anything other than legal pot.

You may not like it, but that's the way you come across. And I KNOW I'm not the only one who sees that. OR, for that matter, the only one who has pointed that out.
on Jun 06, 2007
Thrid partees are teh suxx
on Jun 06, 2007
whatever gid...don't take it back..wallow in your ignorance. oh, sorry, shouldn't tell ya what to do. when you are thru confusing "we, the people" with "we, the corporation" let me know...
on Jun 06, 2007
Thrid partees are teh suxx
Hell I am giving that one an Insightful just because it isn't part of the Gid-S.C. feud.
on Jun 06, 2007
when you are thru confusing "we, the people" with "we, the corporation" let me know...


Only when you surrender your Communist Party membership card, Sean!
on Jun 06, 2007

Hell I am giving that one an Insightful just because it isn't part of the Gid-S.C. feud.

Welll....it is an SC.

on Jun 06, 2007
Welll....it is an SC.


Remember, I'm SanC. Not SC. That's Sean.
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