The journey from there to here

On another forum that I frequent, we are discussing "nanny city" laws that overregulate a person's property. The kinds of laws that target broken down cars, "junk" piles, etc. These laws are meant to improve a community, but in the end it is my contention that they just wind up being laws that target the poor.

So that got me to wonder: how many of the people who postulate on these things have actually been poor, or know what it's like from day to day?

Let me explain. No, that would take too long. Let me sum up:

A junk vehicle may seem like something that needs to be removed, but what does that junk vehicle represent? What if you are a family living hand to mouth and you don't have the money to fix that car, but you drive to work in a car that is rapidly putt-putting its own way to the salvage yard. Perhaps that car represents transportation; for $200-300 you could fix it up, vs. $1000 for just a DOWNPAYMENT for a decent car; a downpayment you can't undertake because you can't handle the payments. And what if that car has more value than the $40 the salvage yard offers, yet it can't be sold (quite common in 20 year old full sized automobiles with V8 engines)? It may be a "blight" to someone, but let's face it, the poor sections of town are never going to look like the rich subdivisions.

Now let's move on to "junk". What constitutes junk? Scrap metal? Lumber? That lumber might be someone's woodpile; working long hours to support their family does not always leave them with time to cut up pallets for firewood. And it is possible that scrap metal could be for the petty supplemental income for salvage. Is it really "community building" to deny someone the extra $50-100 they might make for hauling in screen doors (screen doors, I must protest that were, not long ago, sitting on someone ELSE's property). We're an oddly hypocritical country; we preach recycling, but we don't support recyclers very much.

I propose that community building doesn't begin with writing tickets for every perceived offense; ESPECIALLY when those offenses are forgiven among "higher ranking" members in the same community. I suggest that if someone's broken down car offends you, perhaps you could find out WHY it is there. Perhaps you could help them repair it so that it is no longer an eyesore. In the process, you may gain a friend.

If peeled paint and falling shingles are an issue, perhaps the community could come up with a way that wouldn't present such a financial hardship to have that roof repaired. There's value in the Amish lifestyle in that regards (and many others...but we won't go there right now): living in a community means if you see a problem, you have a moral responsibility to present yourself as part of the solution, not part of the problem.

If you've ever been truly poor, you know what a hardship citations for these offenses can bring. $100 represents half a week's wages for a minimum wage worker and is not money they can likely part with easily. Taking that $100 in fines means taking food out of the mouths of that individual's family (of course, the solution these imbeciles see is calling CPS to report neglect because of a problem THEY created).

If we're going to start indicting people, perhaps it is time we start indicting people who deliberately target the poor with legislation that drives up rental costs and makes the cost of living prohibitive for a working class worker. Perhaps we should start fining THOSE individuals.

There's an apocryphal story about New York's legendary mayor Laguardia. It is said that he took the bench one day in a courthouse, and heard the case of a woman who stole bread. He found the woman guilty and fined everyone in the courthouse for living in a city where someone had to steal bread, money he promptly gave to the woman. Now this story may not be true, but the moral lesson in it is. If we want a stronger community, we must find ways to make it stronger, not fine people because they lack the financial means to build up their property to our expectations. One of the reason the world's poor can get by on $1 a day is because they aren't fined out of existence.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Mar 25, 2007

I suspect most of us have been truly poor.  As for most of us it is a transitory stage in life.  For me, it was my childhood, when 50 cents was more than we could afford.

For the analogy, I would say that time is a factor.  And in that, with the safety nets, it is not a defense.  Perhaps it is.  As I left poverty 30 odd years ago.  When a MacDonalds burger was a true and rare delicacy.  And only on the most auspicious of occassions. (as in twice in a life time).

on Mar 25, 2007
I suspect most of us have been truly poor.


I really doubt that "most of us" have been truly poor, dr. guy. A lot of posts I see show a glaringly ignorant look at what it's like.

When someone says "but they can have that car hauled off!", they haven't got a clue.

Where we live, a car with a blown head gasket will usually cost you about a grand. When we were looking for a new car, we saw a minivan with a blown tranny for $850. When cars are that high, you keep anything you have a clean title on. Because most cars can be repaired for less than that!
on Mar 25, 2007
a blown head gasket will usually cost you about a grand


I feel lucky! Mine was only about $500.

But I do understand. As in walking to and from school because I could not get my car repaired - a distance of about 12 miles (it was college - but still). As in mac and Cheese was our dinner du jour. As in soda was not in our vocabulary because it cost a dime.

You may be right that it was not most of us. But I suspect (given the audience - not the general population) that it was many of us. There are more of us than there are Paris Hiltons.
on Mar 25, 2007
Yup, I've been poor.
on Mar 25, 2007
I've never been poor in America. But I lived on the street In England, and whored myself to keep a roof over my head and food in my gut, so I think I can say I've been poor. I agree with Dr Guy to a certain extent. Time, talent, work, and good luck can bring an end to poverty, and there are too many 'poor' that are content to suck on the public tit for as long as they can.
on Mar 25, 2007

Been poor?  Still am poor in many ways.

Grew up poor (with my family trying to live on the relatively meager wages that are paid to a Law Enforcement Officer in the area I grew up in), and still live pay-check to pay-check.  When emergencies strike, which they do, we still scramble to accomodate them.

I'm lucky that I can enjoy a few luxuries here and there, and really I can't complain about how much I get paid for the work that I do, but living where I live, with a family, and doing it on basically one salary is not easy.  The government takes as much as they can in taxes, I sock aside as much as I can to my 401k plan, but there's no savings to rest on, and plenty of bills that continue to outpace any "cost of living" adjustment I might see in my yearly raise.

I don't plead poverty, but I'm far from rich and yet there are plenty that would look at me and say I am not paying enough in taxes and need to pay more so that others can have better.  I'd love some of those folks to walk a mile....

on Mar 25, 2007
Time, talent, work, and good luck can bring an end to poverty, and there are too many 'poor' that are content to suck on the public tit for as long as they can


Oh, I agree with that 100%, emp. But having a rundown car in your driveway is hardly "sucking on the public tit", now, is it?

Basic economics: if a city fines an individual $500 for a junk car, that's 2 1/2 weeks at minimum wage. That could very well be taking food from his kids' mouths and clothing from their backs.
on Mar 25, 2007
I honestly don't think it's the city's business how someone's house or yard looks.

Having said that, when we buy a home, I want to buy one in a snooty neighborhood with an association with no tolerance for grass a milimeter too tall. I'm so sick of the filth and crappy conditions on this Army base. And THAT'S not poverty, that's laziness.

Ick.

We've been poor, but never impoverished. And we've always had family connections that helped us out (such as with a used vehicle, FIL is a mechanic who has tons and with housing, etc.)
on Mar 25, 2007
Having said that, when we buy a home, I want to buy one in a snooty neighborhood with an association with no tolerance for grass a milimeter too tall. I'm so sick of the filth and crappy conditions on this Army base. And THAT'S not poverty, that's laziness.


Oh, I agree. I've said many times that if the city was trying to clean up the whole community, and if they were offering assistance in doing it, I would be right onboard with their whole plan. It's the fact that it's targetted while ignoring a LOT of blight FAR worse than anything on OUR property, and that they were complaining about the problem without offering a solution that galls me!
on Mar 25, 2007
Having said that, when we buy a home, I want to buy one in a snooty neighborhood with an association with no tolerance for grass a milimeter too tall.


Although that may come back to bite you on the rear end when your kids leave their bicycles in the driveway.

Just something to think about. A lot of people who have bought into neighborhoods with HOA's have wound up hating them.
on Mar 25, 2007
lot of people who have bought into neighborhoods with HOA's have wound up hating them.


And those that have not bought there do as well.
on Mar 25, 2007
I don't mind them, dr. guy. I simply intend to never buy in that sort of neighborhood.
on Mar 25, 2007
Having been on both sides of it (Army housing, pre and post privatization), I prefer the draconian housing rules. It's that bad around here.
on Mar 25, 2007
I don't mind them, dr. guy. I simply intend to never buy in that sort of neighborhood.


Hehehehe. Well, I guess I am the same since I refuse to. So while I hate them, they dont bother me as well.
on Mar 25, 2007
I've never been so poor I or my family have ever needed to maintain a scrap yard on our property, so no, I guess I've never actually been poor.
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