The journey from there to here
Published on February 28, 2007 By Gideon MacLeish In Misc

A recent discussion on debt free living got me to thinking. Well, that and the truck we just purchased. We want to live debt free, we're moving to it, but sometimes, in certain situations, debt such as a car payment is essential.

See, when we moved here, it was initially my intention to try to buy a car and "make payments in advance" and trade my way up. Big mistake. And one that cost us a lot in the long term. At the end of six months, I counted the costs, and we had spent over $2000 on cars and repairs. JUST cars and repairs. That's not counting gas, tires (which we went through FAST...WalMart tires are not worth it. Period.), and other related expenses. That means, in our quest to "save" money, we actually paid over $400 a month. So we came up with plan B. I would buy a car cheap and reserve enough money for repairs. We found a nice candidate at $800. $2000 in repairs later we've finally given up on it, and in the weeks to come, it will meet its end at the junk yard.

So I bit the bullet and shelled out $3000 (financed) for a 1994 Buick LeSabre. I didn't want to finance it, but we had to have transportation. We live 12 miles outside of town, and there are no rentals available for a family of our size in town, at least not at a rate approachig reasonable. One year later, the transmission went, but we had already notched close to 30,000 miles and the engine was still strong, so I didn't bat an eye at paying $750 to fix the tranny. So we have just under $4000 in the LeSabre, and have put over 50,000 miles on it in a year and a half. The car's still a good runner, but it's time for it to get a rest. My mileage needs are less now, but I still don't need a car that will leave me stranded halfway to town. And our family has grown since then by one (a CAR seat one as well, so extra space requirements), and there are only a handful of vehicles that will seat our family.

Experience has taught me to avoid the cheap rides. They're just not worth it. So when we went looking, we went KNOWING it would mean a substantial payment. We were fortunate to find a vehicle that both met our needs and, while it stretched, it didn't bust, our budget (and at an AMAZING 70% of Blue Book...this is the first car EVER I have bought that I owed LESS than what it is worth the day I drove it off the lot!). And that car payment is, to us, a necessity.

Through the first year here, we paid about $400 a month in vehicles and repairs. The next year and a half, while making payments on a car, we paid about $222. By making payments, we cut our transportation expenses in HALF because we were driving a better vehicle, one not in constant need of repair.

Now our payments are somewhere nestled between the two totals. While they're not attractive, they're not out of sight. And it is entirely conceivable that I could be driving this vehicle for the next ten years; I certainly see enough late 80's Suburbans out on the road to know that it is not a stretch at all. By the time I get done with this vehicle, it could be one of my best bargains ever. Because I learned that sometimes you pay more to pay less.

Incidentally, the same could be said of our washer. The more research I do, the more I realize we may have bought into a real bargain here.

So while living debt free is a good goal, sometimes, paradoxically, it is not unwise to accrue a little wisely managed debt to get there.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Feb 28, 2007
I have a 92 Buick Regal, and going strong at 262,000 miles! It's that engine, it's a great engine. The tranny and suspension will go out before the engine (with proper maintenance of course!) and you've already done the tranny.

Treat 'er well and she'll take you far!

Incidentally, after 7 years of having mine, I'm now looking to move into a crossover SUV. I'm pretty much debt-free and ready to try my hand at this financing thing. Gotta build credit so someday I can buy my house!

on Feb 28, 2007
Well, with the new truck, we're planning to give the Buick up. She's got 200K miles on her, about 50K of those to our credit, and she'll make great A to B transportation for a family that needs a car. And I'm not getting outta my Suburban to "slum it" in the Buick...lol!

But you're right, it IS the engine. Our first car when we moved up here was an 86 Olds...we bought it for $500 with 320,000 miles...we added another 10k before she finally quit on us...not much, I know, but she gave us our money's worth.
on Feb 28, 2007

So while living debt free is a good goal, sometimes, paradoxically, it is not unwise to accrue a little wisely managed debt to get there.

That about sums up exactly what I would add and/or say on the topic.

on Mar 01, 2007
I bought my first truck in 87. At 75k miles, it blew a head gasket. Then at 150k it did it again. I bought my second in 99. 140k miles later (with regular maintenance) it is going great. Both financed, and end of the year model buys (so we did not get the $1k drop when I inserted the key).

Same model, different years. It really does seem that cars are getting a lot better and lasting longer. I will keep this one until it drops dead. No reason to get rid of it.
on Mar 01, 2007

Do you ever listen to the Dave Ramsey show?

He talks about "Acting your wage."

Anyway, I once thought a vehicle was worth being in debt over.  But now I don't.  I'd rather drive an older vehicle that's paid for and mine, than a newer one that belongs to the bank, or whoever finances it.

You have a unique situation because of all your kids.  Vehicles that carry 8 people aren't cheap.  And having one that is in good working order is a must.

 

on Mar 01, 2007
I try to apply this quote to purchases ... especially vehicles

It is unwise to pay too much...
But it's worse to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you loose a little money and that'sall.
When you pay too little you somtimes loose everything...
Because what you bought was incapable of doing what it was bought to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting alot ... it can't be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run,
And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.
-John Ruskin
on Mar 01, 2007
Congrats on your purchase! How exciting. It's awesome that you guys will all be able to pile in together.

We (ok, I) traded our Chevy Malibu in for an '06 Ford Explorer XLT with 3rd row seats. Cramming the kids into the Malibu and finding a place for groceries and baby gear did not sound fun to me, especially with the new carseat law (my 6 year old has to ride in a carseat now).

I like the Explorer and the 2nd and 3rd row seats fold down with ease. The way it's configured probably wouldn't work great for a larger family, though.

I got a great deal on mine, too!
on Mar 01, 2007
I got a great deal on mine, too!


Yeah, we got an awesome deal on ours, too...it's a total buyer's market on SUV's

Do you ever listen to the Dave Ramsey show?
He talks about "Acting your wage."


Yes, Tova...I like a lot about that show...and if there were a practical way for us to do away with a car payment, we would. But the truth is, since we took on a car payment, our vehicle costs have basically been cut in HALF...we were spending WAY more with the "older car" theory.

It's nearly impossible to find a vehicle that runs for under $2000 here. And to find one that runs welll...well, that's another story. As nice as it is in theory to think about not making a car payment, it doesn't always work in practice.

This truck should far outlast 2 years' worth of payments...hopefully once it's paid in full we can begin saving for the next vehicle. For now, though, we know this was a wise purchase.
on Mar 01, 2007
Yes, Tova...I like a lot about that show...and if there were a practical way for us to do away with a car payment, we would.


I'm not dissing you Gid.

If you found a Suburban you can pay off in two years at half your current car expense, wow, you musta found a dang FINE deal.

I love the Dave Ramsey show. I just discovered it a couple weeks ago, that's why I asked if you heard of it before.
on Mar 01, 2007
Thank you for the practical car tip. You're right about a car payment being necessary sometimes. You were making the car payment into repairs. But never buy a new car... the amount of value it loses right away makes it an inacceptable proposition for me. Maybe someday I'll have a car payment, maybe not, but I hope I can pay cash for decent cars.
on Mar 01, 2007
If you found a Suburban you can pay off in two years at half your current car expense, wow, you musta found a dang FINE deal.


We got a '99 at 70% of Blue Book value. We're pretty stoked about it.

But never buy a new car... the amount of value it loses right away makes it an inacceptable proposition for me


If I ever have the money to pay cash, I would like to buy a new car. But that's the deal, it has to be cash on the barrelhead, or no dice.

I love the Dave Ramsey show. I just discovered it a couple weeks ago, that's why I asked if you heard of it before.


I agree. It's a fantastic show (and the number two reason why I'm trying to finish my degree without taking on additional student loans; the number ONE reason being been there, done that!)
on Mar 01, 2007
My dad drove "Dixie Cup Cars" He would buy them for $500 and hold them together for a year or 2. Even if he spent $2000 to fix a car in that 2 years.....it was still less than a standard car payment. Plus after he went through a few cars, he had plenty of spare parts and he spent less each seccessive car for parts. He could do his own repair work so that worked out well for him.

I bought used cars to avoid the automatic depreciation and then usually ended up spending more money to fix them up. I figured it out once, I spent more money buying older models and repairing them, per year, than I would loose in depreciated costs of buying a new model.

I bought a 2003 Honda CRV right as the 2004s were coming out. I talked them down to a better than fair market price ($16900) In 2006 when my car was totaled.....I got $14000 from the insurance company. I think that the depreciation was money well spent for the use of a car. I could have spent $3000 on an older car and then still had repairs and stress on top of it.
Thanks, but no.
I'm all for buying used if you can get a good deal, but with me alone, not too great at fixing it myself and having road trips in my future....I'd rather pay up front for the security of a new(er) car. It may or may not be cheaper....but it's worth it.
on Mar 01, 2007
BTW. I paid my car off well before my accident..... so the money went straight to the next vehicle.
on Mar 01, 2007
The only new car we ever got as a family was a 1995 Pontiac Transport Van. It was one of those program cars with like 120 miles on it so we did get a good deal as well. A mechanic friend suggested this make.

With three kids and their friends it was a must. We spent a lot of time in that car. All three boys cut their driving teeth on this car. It made it thru that and so much more. I did have to do alot of alignments (our dirt road) with these boys driving it tho. It's still sitting in my driveway now on it's last legs 12 years later. Yes, we had a loan, but like Gid said, sometimes it can't be helped and for us it did pay off and was paid off quite a few years ago now.

I like Ramsey as well but most of the time listened to Larry Burquett instead mostly because he was on the station I listened to. He's died a year or so ago, but his show is still alive on your local Christian talk radio. I think they're both pretty much alike in their philosophy. Debt free is their mantra.

Have fun cruisin Gid.
on Mar 01, 2007
My dad drove "Dixie Cup Cars" He would buy them for $500 and hold them together for a year or 2. Even if he spent $2000 to fix a car in that 2 years.....it was still less than a standard car payment. Plus after he went through a few cars, he had plenty of spare parts and he spent less each seccessive car for parts. He could do his own repair work so that worked out well for him.


I can't do that. I'm not allowed to have anything outside of my house except for my vehicles, so I don't have a place to store auto parts. And my one experiment with the "dixie cup" idea failed badly...as I mentioned, we have a car with about $3000 into it and about 10,000 miles put on it that is heading to the salvage yeard...after all of the repairs, it is still not roadworthy, and we've had to give up on it and eat a rather nasty loss. Because we're not allowed to have anything outside of our house except for our running vehicles, we are also throwing away a 1986 Chrysler Fifth Avenue that I literally cannot GIVE away. Another grand's going out in THAT fiasco.

It was beyond time for us to get a good vehicle. We've spent two and a half years driving junk, and it's costing us WELL more than a car payment would.
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