The journey from there to here
Published on January 8, 2007 By Gideon MacLeish In Current Events

The move to make a folk hero out of Saddam Hussein has begun in earnest. And it's almost certain to divide the left, as most rational, reasonable liberals want nothing to do with the movement.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are still those among the liberal camp who are making a hero out of a mass murderer. But they're not using the direct approach, but rather the indirect approach of demanding that those who would refuse Hussein all of the creature comforts of an innocent man are morally equivalent to Hussein.

The conclusions one must draw from their strange rationale are simple: either those who speak their mind should be executed, or what Hussein did is really not that bad. Since I doubt they would really like to see me sent to the gallows for free speech, I can only assume that their moral equivalency is meant to say that Saddam's actions were mere human nature, and that we should not punish him for acting in a manner that is only human. Basically, exonerating Saddam for his sins by demanding that they are simply normal human behaviour.

In another article, I pointed out Nazis who were sentenced and hanged at Nuremberg who had families. Nobody wept for them. Nobody wrote long, passionate articles, nor violated copyright by posting those articles in their entirety without the consent of the publisher asking us to feel for their families, to be outraged because their families weren't allowed to communicate with them as if they were free individuals. Nobody did it because what the Nazis did was indefensible. And what Hussein did was indefensible. And because their families' love for their family member did not trump the need for these people to serve the sentence for which they were convicted.

Saddam Hussein died alone. Saddam Hussein died without calls from friends and family members offering him words of comfort. Saddam Hussein died without his teddy bear to hug, or the loving embrace of his children. And that is how it should have been.

I am insulted that anyone would demand that my lack of compassion for Saddam Hussein is even close to morally equivalent to the murder of millions. I find especially telling the hypocrisy of this particular individual, who demanded that Saddam's execution was "justice" to my insistence it was not, and then had the gall to post the ignorant claptrap from a Hussein family apologist and demand that I was as bad as Hussein for not buying it.

The more I have discovered, the more I actually think Hussein's daughter SHOULD have been able to say goodbye to him, though. IN PERSON. While they were fitting the noose for HER neck, too.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 08, 2007
exonerating Saddam for his sins by demanding that they are simply normal human behaviour.


it's difficult to imagine hussein--or the nazis at nuremburg--being aquitted of almost any charge.

there is a major difference you seem to be overlooking.

hussein shoulda been tried for his greatest crimes--as were the nazis--by jurists with no political axe to grind in a courtroom located in a neutral corner.

what is being passed off as iraq's government is incapable of providing its citizens with security, electricity or even potable water.

there are still those among the liberal camp who are making a hero out of a mass murderer. But they're not using the direct approach, but rather the indirect approach of demanding that those who would refuse Hussein all of the creature comforts of an innocent man are morally equivalent to Hussein.


so now sunni arabs expressing tribalistic loyalties are in the liberal camp? cuz it's only them who seem to be doing anything close to redeeming hussein.

i could care less about his daughter's feelings. i am deeply disturbed to discover my government is clearly incapable of successfully bringing someone like saddam hussein to justice without getting its thumb stuck in the noose--despite having a perfectly good and previously proven template.

hopefully it won't be called upon to organize a picnic for more than 4 people.

on Jan 08, 2007
hussein shoulda been tried for his greatest crimes--as were the nazis--by jurists with no political axe to grind in a courtroom located in a neutral corner.


OK, I can buy that, kingbee. That's a reasonable argument, even if I don't agree 100%. But that's a far cry from the attempt to vindicate Hussein, or the attempt to compare the words of those who don't sympathize with his daughter's plight with the actions of Hussein over his lengthy career.

Please remember that the CLINTON regime didn't think a whole lot of Hussein, nor did the UN, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, or a variety of other groups that cross the political spectrum. If you want to make the nature of the trial and execution of Hussein a subject for debate, that's fair, that's reasonable. If you want to vindicate the actions of Hussein, that's another matter entirely.
on Jan 08, 2007
there is a major difference you seem to be overlooking.


For the record, what spurred this on was the fact that I was accused of being morally equivalent to Hussein because I didn't believe his daughter should have gotten to speak with him on the phone. You can disagree with my politics all you want, but to equate me with a brutal dictator who murdered thousands simply because I disagree with your point of view is not only ridiculous, but it in fact cheapens the impact of what Hussein actually did.
on Jan 08, 2007

hussein shoulda been tried for his greatest crimes--as were the nazis--by jurists with no political axe to grind in a courtroom located in a neutral corner.

I found that statement to be ironic, and I dont think you intended the meaning to be this way, but it did come across.  That the Nazis were judged by neutral people.  That was far from the case.  I am not defending the Nazis, but one of the reasons the US wanted to get Japan to surrender as soon as possible was to keep the Russians out of the post war crimes tribunals.  For they made a mockery of the Nuremberg trials, and some, definitely not all, of the convicted Nazis should not have been given the death sentence.

Saddams trial was a model of fairness compared to Nuremberg.  That was simply vengence in the guise of trials.

on Jan 08, 2007
Well, she keeps saying it's his poor DAUGHTER we should be feeling bad for, because she didn't get a phone call with daddy before they choked the life out of him.


I've come to the conclusion that it was a deliberate points whoring article. She knew it would be controversial and did it because nobody's reading her smiley blogs or her animal blogs. As a points whore myself, I can't really disrespect her for that, but let's be honest about it, shall we?
on Jan 08, 2007
LW: "Jennifer can suck my dick........."

LW, I'm incredbly disappointed to hear that you have a dick!
on Jan 08, 2007
If you want to vindicate the actions of Hussein, that's another matter entirely.


never my intention.

I was accused of being morally equivalent to Hussein because I didn't believe his daughter should have gotten to speak with him on the phone.


i'll cop to jumping into something about which i really wasn't aware--and i'm in complete agreement with you about the equivocation. in my defense, here's the source of my confusion:

The move to make a folk hero out of Saddam Hussein has begun in earnest. And it's almost certain to divide the left, as most rational, reasonable liberals want nothing to do with the movement.
But that doesn't change the fact that there are still those among the liberal camp who are making a hero out of a mass murderer


she's hardly the person who comes to mind when ya say 'liberal' or 'the left'. as far as her being considered a 'movement', it's necessary to preface that characterization with this specific qualifier: bowel
on Jan 08, 2007
I am not defending the Nazis, but one of the reasons the US wanted to get Japan to surrender as soon as possible was to keep the Russians out of the post war crimes tribunals. For they made a mockery of the Nuremberg trials, and some, definitely not all, of the convicted Nazis should not have been given the death sentence.
Saddams trial was a model of fairness compared to Nuremberg. That was simply vengence in the guise of trials


this is the statement to which i refer in bahu's thread. all allegation and opinion alla time without even a hint of an attempt to support your claims.
on Jan 08, 2007

this is the statement to which i refer in bahu's thread. all allegation and opinion alla time without even a hint of an attempt to support your claims.

It is my opinion.,  Would you like to see the support for the facts in that statement (the Government memos about keeping the russians out - the Nuremberg Nazis put to death and what for?).  You have conveniently tried to now backslide on your stupid statement in another thread because you lost that arguement based on facts.  Now you challenge me to prove my opinion.  Fine, if you want it, I will google the Nuremberg trials for you as english is so foreign to you.

on Jan 08, 2007
Oh, cute. Have you seen that she's deleted the post in question now? What a baby. Whether you're full of shit and getting crucified, or whether you've got a decent point, at least have the testicular (or ovular, as the case may be) to keep your thread up.

What a baby.
on Jan 08, 2007
Oh, cute. Have you seen that she's deleted the post in question now? What a baby. Whether you're full of shit and getting crucified, or whether you've got a decent point, at least have the testicular (or ovular, as the case may be) to keep your thread up.

What a baby.


no wanker - JU will not close the thread - so i have put it to private for the time being to stop wankers like you commenting on it when you have been asked not to comment further.

Get your facts straight asshole!

You were all told the thread is closed - it was closed from the blog side but for some reason it would not close on the forums! so go baby yourself twit!
on Jan 08, 2007
The thread was closed because you were using it to flame
Silent Poet.

So do not flatter your little tiny self that I am for one moment afraid of you assholes - I am not! So go and take a flying fark!
on Jan 08, 2007
Jennifer can suck my dick while she's crying for Saddam's poor daughter. If I could get my hands on the murderous little princess, I'd choke the life out of her myself.


your diseased filthy private parts in my mouth? forget it! You are a filthy harridan, you can keep your dick to yourself - I refuse your invitation thank you!
on Jan 08, 2007
The thread was closed because you were using it to flame
Silent Poet.


That's just precious. There she goes again, sticking up for those who "need it", helping the "helpless", defending the "defenseless".

If Lucas had anything of value to say, he wouldn't get flamed so hard.

But - he's proclaimed (not that any of us believe it for a second) that he's stepping away from JU for good. (Granted, it will take him about three months and a severe dumping by his internet lovey for him to come crawling back, under a different moniker, trying to trick us into believing he's changed. Good gravy. Someone save me.)

So now that he's gone, you can open your thread back up and we can continue to discuss your ridiculous stance that a woman wanted for multiple crimes against her own countrymen should have any sort of right to talk to her father.
on Jan 08, 2007
So do not flatter your little tiny self that I am for one moment afraid of you assholes - I am not! So go and take a flying fark!


Or are you tired of being shown, again and again, how recockulous your stance is?
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