I've spent the last six years in IT support, installing XP on countless pc/laptops of varying ages and never once had a problem with either the install or activation, or stability of the machine.

The only problems I have are caused by end users' 'fiddling' with things they have little knowledge of. This Thursday's classic - "I deleted a few things now my programs won't work".... yeah, thanks for that. People get a pc at home and all of a sudden they think they're experts. Problem with that is most think it's not their fault when something goes wrong, "it's not me, it's Windows..."

Anyone constantly having problems with processes which other people do not, should perhaps give up home computing for another hobby they are more suitable for... knitting perhaps?   

Anyone constantly having problems with processes which other people do not, should perhaps give up home computing for another hobby they are more suitable for... knitting perhaps?

(sarcasm on)

Funny, I'm not the only one who's seen these problems. If I were, you might be right.

I'm glad Windows runs perfectly on every computer you've ever worked on, Fuzzy. I'm glad Windows update somehow skips the validation process for you. Really I am. But it doesn't do that for everyone.

(sarcasm off)

Seriously, though, yes many of the problems related to Windows problems are directly or indirectly related to the End User. But that doesn't change the fact that a reinstall on a new hard drive more of a pain in the butt than it needs to be due to Windows activation. It doesn't change the fact that even an OEM version of XP will set you back nearly $100, and because it can't be installed on multiple computers, that cost must be spread across all of the computers you own. And it doesn't change the fact that Windows Automatic Updates can, and do, wreak havoc with drivers and other issues within Windows.

I have watched SP2 updates take out video drivers on two occasions. It's a very easy fix, granted...IF you know what to look for. But it's still an avoidable issue, really. The IE7 updates have caused a lot of trouble with wireless network adapters, most notably bluetooth. I don't think much of wireless network adapters, so I don't use them, but I've had to deal with problems with several EU's related to the issue.

You can be a Microsoft fanboi all you want, Fuzzy. Me? Maybe I WILL take up knitting, with all that time I save from not having to deal with the boys from Redmond...lol!

The only problems I have are caused by end users' 'fiddling' with things they have little knowledge of. This Thursday's classic - "I deleted a few things now my programs won't work".... yeah, thanks for that. People get a pc at home and all of a sudden they think they're experts. Problem with that is most think it's not their fault when something goes wrong, "it's not me, it's Windows..."

Yeah, CompTIA hands out certs just for the asking, fuzzy...lol!

I know you're years ahead of me, but I'm not a total newbie here.

But that doesn't change the fact that a reinstall on a new hard drive more of a pain in the butt than it needs to be due to Windows activation

Explain what you mean. I do this frequently with no such issues. Only last month I upgraded to a 500Gb drive, installed Windows, installed my drivers, ran Windows update. In a very short time it was if nothing had changed. No problems whatsoever. Strange how this happens for so many people yet a few constantly have problems.

Windows must be so clever. It selectively identifies a few individuals and refuses to install/activate for them no matter which machine they use. Wow, Bill deserves more credit than I thought - "intelligent Windows" - bit of an oxymoron but definitetly a marketing ploy Redmond is missing out on   

Explain what you mean.

When you install windows and begin running updates at a certain point it asks you to activate. You've honestly never had a new install of Windows ask you to activate? You can't finish with Windows updates until the reinstall is activated. If you've found a way around this, please enlighten me, because of all the people I know, some with FAR more experience than me, nobody that I have encountered has yet found an end around to this.

Now, because the product is showing as already having been installed, you usually need to verify that it is being reinstalled on the same computer. Their antipiracy feature in action. You can do it online, but because you're installing an OS it is already showing as having been installed, it's usually quicker to phone it in. Nopw, on this score, I will grant you my employers make it more tricky by not (ahem!) giving us a phone at the PC repair workstation, making it necessary for us to hand copy the code, call it in, and hand copy the new code they give us.

Windows must be so clever. It selectively identifies a few individuals and refuses to install/activate for them no matter which machine they use.

Never said it wouldn't install, I just said that Windows activation makes it more of a PIA than it needs to be.

By the way, how did you manage to install Windows XP to multiple computers without a volume license key or paying for multiple copies? I bet a lot of techs would kill to know that trick!

Only last month I upgraded to a 500Gb drive, installed Windows, installed my drivers, ran Windows update.

For the record, the only two computers I've dealt with the video driver issue on have been Dells, so it MAY be a Dell issue (and possibly specific to certain video cards; I don't know), but still, it DOES happen. Like I said, it's an easy fix (assuming you have a separate computer to access the Internet for drivers or d/l the drivers prior to the update), but still something that shouldn't happen.

I just finished my most recent of over a dozen calls to activate Windows XP on an End User's computer.

OK, I admit there's a little room for confusion here. What I meant to say was over a dozen calls on separate reinstalls, not on a single install. The most I had to contact MS on any SINGLE reinstall was three times, and that was a fluke, even I'll admit that.

Still, the activation process 1) hasn't prevented piracy. I know personally of people running illegitimate copies of XP; and 2) creates an unnecessary hassle for the HONEST EU's.

Activation is about as painless as any process can be.

The first time I encountered it I thought it had screwed up....simply because it was over before I noticed.

What is curious here is references to activation/s and costs of OEM XPs ....seems the 'real' issue is more to do with the price of an MS OS, vs the Open Source 'you-get-what-you-pay-for' Linux.

Sure, I've had one or two occasions that one version or other of a Doze install was totally screwed...but likewise in quite a few other OSs over the years.  Problems are not particular to MS....no way, man....not by a very long shot....

By the way, how did you manage to install Windows XP to multiple computers without a volume license key or paying for multiple copies? I bet a lot of techs would kill to know that trick!

I hope you are not trying to use a single XP disk to install to mutiple computers, that is what activation is supposed to prevent (it's called piracy). Each machine needs the correct software and license which should be clearly identified in the asset register, whether that be individual licensing or volume licensing. There's no 'trick' involved, it's called running an IT department in a professional manner.

I'm beginning to see where all your problems lie. Perhaps Linux is better for you   

Sure, I've had one or two occasions that one version or other of a Doze install was totally screwed...but likewise in quite a few other OSs over the years. Problems are not particular to MS....no way, man....not by a very long shot....

No, you're right, not by a long shot. I don't hate MS by any means, they've done some great things over the years. I'm kind of in between, not hating MS, but not ruling out other options.

I listed several other reasons for checking out Linux; cost is only one factor. You're right, you get what you pay for and I'm certainly not going to put Linux on a state of the art machine unless I've thoroughly put it through the paces. Which is one reason (among many) I'm trying it out on old machines.

I disagree that activation is as painless a process as can be. Sure, if it activates right away over the Internet, it's cool. But on a reinstall it doesn't always do that, because it's been installed and activated previously, so you have to verify you're not installing it on a separate machine. And all you have to do is put one number out of place or write it ambiguously, and you're checking out 54 numbers looking for the one you screwed up. It's not ridiculously hard by any means, but somehow I think they could come up with a better way...especially since pirated versions still DO exist, even post SP2.

As to the older machines, Linux makes more sense than older copies of MS operating systems, because MS doesn't support Windows 9x, and because Linux can run faster on the old machines. I'm not using the older machines for Internet connections or any high end apps, but basically as glorified word processors so that I can learn Linux better.

MS has done some amazing things over the years. But MS is not the whole universe, by a long shot, and they've done some pretty annoying things as well. It will probably be a long time before I abandon MS entirely, if I ever do, but for several reasons it makes good sense to take a hard look at Linux options.

I hope you are not trying to use a single XP disk to install to mutiple computers, that is what activation is supposed to prevent (it's called piracy).

No, what we are trying to do is to take the copies of XP that the EU legitimately purchased as part of their machine and reinstall them on new hard drives when their hard drives have been replaced. That's not piracy, last time I checked.

And it's not an impossibly involved process, it just can get ridiculous at times.

You know what, Fuzzy? I'm really starting not to like you a whole lot now that I see this side of you. You're pretty shitty to those who don't match up to your personal standards, technically speaking. My point wasn't that MS "is the devil", my point was that there are legitimate reasons for exploring Linux and that MS has given plenty more good reasons for doing so. Sorry it didn't meet with your editorial approval.

I remember getting all hot and moist over QNX...cos the demo seemed so 'capable', yet ran from a floppy....yes, one of those things....not some live Linux CD junk...but a 1.44 meg floppy.

Got equally 'thingy' over BeOS....claimed to be the nextbigthing, but wasn't.

Linux is just too busy trying to re-invent itself in as many disparate flavours as humanly possible...so NONE will actually be competent and/or viable.

Of course....here's me tearing hair out over a Vista RTM install that stole half a day of my life and still won't hook me up to DSL....but all that aside it has promise....

Of course....here's me tearing hair out over a Vista RTM install that stole half a day of my life and still won't hook me up to DSL....but all that aside it has promise....

lol. I actually LIKE the look of Vista...and no matter how much I look at Linux I can't see myself ever abandoning Windows entirely. I'm considering a dual core proc for the case mod I'm working on, and, if I do that, THAT machine, at least, will probably be a Vista machine. My main machine is XP and it runs great. But by the end of 2007, I will probably have at least 5 computers in my home, and I can't see running them all as Vista or XP computers.

The two computers I'm considering as candidates for Linux are: an 866 Mhz PIII that has been a pretty good workhorse machine for three years. It currently has XP on it, but I don't have a key for it (I bought the computer used from a computer shop), and, honestly, it probably IS a pirated version, even though I didn't pirate it, or even know it at the time. The hard drive's going south, so I'm going to need to replace it before too long. Given its stats, it seems like a fair candidate for a Linux trial.

The second is a Pentium 166 (overclocked at 200 mhz, but still, slower than all get out). I picked it up to cannibalize for the drives, but got it home and it's a better machine than I expected. It would make a fair word processor, as well as a platform for some older educational games for the kids. It may be a dinosaur, but it hasn't been abused (it's one of the cleaner used machines I have seen), and I'm not sure I want to scrap it out. Not yet anyway.

Neither one of these machines is worth purchasing a new version of XP, in my opinion. Not at the cost associated with a fresh install for each machine. But neither one of these computers is ready for the graveyard, either.

It currently has XP on it, but I don't have a key for it (I bought the computer used from a computer shop), and, honestly, it probably IS a pirated version

There are key reading proggies out there that can tell you the key used to install the OS.....if it's a legit one you'll be able to check via MS update - validation....[if it's bogus you'll get a polite comment that there is a 'problem']. If it's legit you'd be able to re-install without dramas with [almost] any disk would do....but 'strictly' speaking you are required to have the MS key sticker attached to the case....

There are key reading proggies out there that can tell you the key used to install the OS.....if it's a legit one you'll be able to check via MS update - validation....[if it's bogus you'll get a polite comment that there is a 'problem']. If it's legit you'd be able to re-install without dramas with [almost] any disk would do....but 'strictly' speaking you are required to have the MS key sticker attached to the case....

Yeah, since I don't have home Internet I'd have to haul it in to validate. I may check it out, but if it turns out to be pirated, I have no interest whatsoever in buying a new copy of Windows for a PIII.