The journey from there to here

In my younger years, when I was new to Christianity, I was often startled by inconsistencies in my newly embraced faith. Conservative ministers would decry the sin of abortion, yet point a crooked finger at the pregnant "pouches" of young, unmarried women in their congregation. Many of these women would then compound the mistakes that led to their current condition with the greater mistake of abortion, feeling that if they hid their actions, they could escape judgment. I resolved early on that I would donate not to the organizations that protested abortion clinics, but to those that provided homes for these women and supported them through difficult times without overlooking the mistakes that put them where they were.

Conservatives in America have made great strides in the intervening years as we have realized that we CAN support unwed mothers throughout their pregnancies without overlooking the very real and pressing problems that brought them there in the first place. Virtually every community of size has homes for unwed mothers, and the tactics of the protestors are pretty much confined to the fringe elements.

We face a similar problem in our approach to poverty in America, and, it seems, far too many of us have not learned from the mistakes of the past. We have made great strides in reducing poverty in this country, yet we have not addressed the spiritual problems that are almost ubiquitous among their population. "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime" is our guiding motto, yet instead of teaching the poor to fish, too many conservatives are satisfied with waving the contents of their livewells in front of the poor and decrying the lack of ambition that left the poor man without a fish to eat. If we are to survive, and to work to reduce poverty, this attitude must drastically change.

There is a saying that "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king". This is self evident among the poor, where liberalism is the "one eyed man". Liberalism does not begin to address the core problems of poverty, meeting it instead with a "tax and spend" approach that robs from the rich to allegedly give to the poor. It is not even close to a perfect solution, and its flaws are so self evident as to make any attempt to enuertate them appear entirely superfluous. Yet a program of robbing from the "haves" to give to the "have nots" resonates deeply with a nation where the majority identify themselves more closely with the "have nots".

(NOTE: The following contains an edit from the original posting due to a typo. The edit is noted and the original can be found in response #17 of the replies):

Conservatives have done an excellent job of identifying the problems that lead to poverty in this country. Yet we have not even begun to identify viable solutions. And because people will almost inevitably choose a poor solution over no solution, they have turned to the inadequate and often short sighted approaches of the liberals because they offer something rather than nothing. Ironically, this should have been pretty clear to conservatives, who snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in the 2004 presidential elections when an unpopular president, leading the nation through an unpopular war, presented a (edit) strong (/edit) and concise plan for the next four years, while his opponent offered nothing but hollow rhetoric and strong personal attacks against his opponent. In fact, a perusal of the websites of the two candidates showed George W. Bush's name appearing more times on John Kerry's website than on his own.

For all the criticisms one can offer of American liberalism, it has, at least historically, employed the proper approach. At the core of American liberalism is a call to activism that conservatives would do well to envy. Liberals encourage volunteerism and personal commitment that are all but absent in far too many of the approaches of the conservative community. Indeed, even the parable of the fish illustrates the need for personal commitment; teaching a man to fish requires a far more intense and personal approach than giving a man a fish ever could. And it's a commitment we can't legislate, nor can we delegate. We must be willing to take on all the challenges of such a commitment ourselves if we are to make a permanent, meaningful impact on poverty in this country.

Real, meaningful approaches are there, but we are doing a remarkably poor jop of promoting them. We can find them in the actions of the Coalition for Urban Renewal and Education (Link ), which is working to address the very real needs of the inner city and which I discovered not through the writings of any conservative pundit, but rather through the coalition's own paid political advertisement advocating for the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. We can find them in the approach of Habitat for Humanity, an agency that requires commitment from those who benefit from its programs but from which conservatives sadly distance themselves because of the political affiliation of its leader, who has not held publicly elected political office in over a quarter century. We can find them in the effective approach of the welfare programs of the LDS church, but most conservative Christians will not concede the effectiveness of the program because they can't get past the doctrine of the church. And I am sure we can find them in many other places, yet a poor PR job leaves me hard pressed to say where.

As conservatives look to the future, we must face the uncomfortable but inescapable truth that, while a conservative outlook offers a far better prognosis for the future of the individual, if we do not address the immediate needs of the poor and needy, the liberal approach will offer far more appeal among those who need what we have to offer. After all, an empty stomach speaks far louder than the most vociferous politician.


Comments (Page 2)
2 Pages1 2 
on Jul 17, 2006
Well this wouldn't be the first time I have made a mistake. I doubt it will be the last. But this is one of the nicer forums I have ever been to.

~Adam Milton
on Jul 17, 2006
I addressed a lot more of what was said in your article than what you are addressing in my response. You took merely the final sentence of my lengthy response and left it at that. I read it, responded to it and stand by my response


Fair enough. I'll adress it categorically.

Gid, I see this opinion as a result of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. The libs are very vocal about their "ideas" of how things should be. I know an enormous number of conservatives and people from "the right" who put their money and action where their mouth is. Instead of running their mouths like the libs you seem to be hailing, they are anonymously donating money, clothes, time in church groups and soup kitchens. They are taking care of their own friends and family members so they don't end up on the streets.


I actually SAID that, in my article:

Real, meaningful approaches are there, but we are doing a remarkably poor jop of promoting them. We can find them in the actions of the Coalition for Urban Renewal and Education (Link ), which is working to address the very real needs of the inner city and which I discovered not through the writings of any conservative pundit, but rather through the coalition's own paid political advertisement advocating for the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. We can find them in the approach of Habitat for Humanity, an agency that requires commitment from those who benefit from its programs but from which conservatives sadly distance themselves because of the political affiliation of its leader, who has not held publicly elected political office in over a quarter century. We can find them in the effective approach of the welfare programs of the LDS church, but most conservative Christians will not concede the effectiveness of the program because they can't get past the doctrine of the church. And I am sure we can find them in many other places, yet a poor PR job leaves me hard pressed to say where.

I DO feel that some conservatives are employing real, meningful approaches, Jill. I just feel there's a poor PR job advertising that fact on the national level. Perhaps it is beccause conservatives are less likely to brag about what they are doing than liberals are, but it has affected the PERCEPTION of who we are among the poor and "disenfranchised". Not the REALITY of who we are, just the perception. And because perception is so integral in who gets elected to public office, we'd be wise to pay attention to it.


Ironically, the something (no matter how flawed) vs. nothing plan is exactly what got Bush where he is today. If the Dems do shape up, it will work in favor of the Republicans again. A litany of complaints is not a plan.


I said that, too:

Ironically, this should have been pretty clear to conservatives, who snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in the 2004 presidential elections when an unpopular president, leading the nation through an unpopular war, presented a hollow and concise plan for the next four years, while his opponent offered nothing but hollow rhetoric and strong personal attacks against his opponent. In fact, a perusal of the websites of the two candidates showed George W. Bush's name appearing more times on John Kerry's website than on his own.

I'm sorry but I have to feel that you are way off base saying that "The Right" has to face hard truths. Society has to face it. We all have to face the fact that we can't rely on our government to feed our hungry and house our homeless. We can't run off to help the starving in Africa when we aren't taking care of our own parents, brothers, sisters and neighbors.


When the article is written specifically to conservatives, it should address the CONSERVATIVE'S response, not society's. This article was unapologetically written to a specific audience, and I don't apologize for stating that THAT audience must face hard truths. If conservatives are evaluating themselves, they should think about what THEY need to change, not what SOCIETY needs to change, or what the LEFT needs to change. Passing the buck on accountability has gone on too long from BOTH sides of the fence.

Taking from the haves and giving to the have nots has been proven time and again to backfire. The haves will resent working more for less. They give more and do more when it is in their control. They create jobs and donate more when it isn't taken away.


Did I advocate for taking from the haves to give to the have nots? I didn't, in fact I advocated AGAINST it. What I spoke about was, again, a matter of perception:


There is a saying that "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king". This is self evident among the poor, where liberalism is the "one eyed man". Liberalism does not begin to address the core problems of poverty, meeting it instead with a "tax and spend" approach that robs from the rich to allegedly give to the poor. It is not even close to a perfect solution, and its flaws are so self evident as to make any attempt to enuertate them appear entirely superfluous. Yet a program of robbing from the "haves" to give to the "have nots" resonates deeply with a nation where the majority identify themselves more closely with the "have nots".

I really don't know how much clearer I could have been in advocating AGAINST the liberal position, Jill. By calling it a "one eyed man", I was TRYING to convey the fact that I consider the liberal position to be imperfect, and, in fact, deeply flawed, but relevant to people who perceive the conservative position (again we're talking about PERCEPTION here, not reality) to be entirely without vision. In other words, if one building's offering them lunch, and another one's offering them work, the shortsightedness of too many within the community will take the lunch over the work most of the time.

The fact is, you took opposition with many of my points, while ECHOING many of those same points. That's why I concluded that the article was either poorly written or poorly understood. I am willing to concede the fault may be mine, Jill, but I didn't feel your criticism was fair when, in fact, you reinforced the very points I was making.

To your concluding paragraph:




The truth that The Right has to face is that President Bush has not been a Republican when it comes to size of government. We need to get back to less government, more responsibility at the personal and community levels. Can anyone really honestly say that taking money from our citizens and giving it to the government to handle is the wise, efficient, beneficial thing to do?


Now, this did offend me because, while every word of it is 100% true, the inference seemed to be that I was advocating such a position. I am not advocating such a position, I do not advocate such a position, and in fact, I entirely eschew such a position. I remain firmly convinced that the things that need to be done to address the problems of the poor in America can, and should be done privately and entirely independent of government oversight. But, while that's compelling rhetoric, the fact is that unless we come up with comprehensive, viable solutions to create programs that will address these problems without depending on the government, then the poor will turn to the solutions that the liberals propose, which, while wholly inadequate, meet the perceived needs of their recipient.

This article was written as a challenge. I did not lambast the conservative position entirely, in fact, I offered THREE examples of real solutions that conservatives could at least STUDY if they want to address the problems of poverty without begging for government funds.
on Jul 17, 2006
Ok, I do see one problem on MY GOP statement. I was copying text from a printed article that I had done at home to the library computer. I did not mean to call Bush's 2004 Presidential plan "hollow", but was in a rush to get the article copied. That may be PART of the source of the confusion. Because the text exists in the copied portion in the replies, I will change the verbiage in the article itself to reflect the original text.

It was a typo on my part, and I do see where that single word could have led to a lot of confusion. But I stand firm in most of my other replies.
on Jul 17, 2006
Gid, our disconnect is I was commenting more on generalities and you were being defensive of what you wrote. I also didn't take it as an article "written specifically to conservatives". It is also difficult to lump people into "the Right" and "the Left" these days with there being the extreme religious right which I don't identify at all with and the extreme liberal left that overshadows the Dem side these days.

I am fully aware of how important perception is. I am just extremely dissappointed that our society isn't wise enough to see beyond that.

I certainly didn't mean to offend or make you feel defensive Gid. I just made general responses to the overall issue. I've stayed away from the political forums for a long time and I guess I lost sight of better judgement and ventured back on.
on Jul 17, 2006
Well this wouldn't be the first time I have made a mistake. I doubt it will be the last. But this is one of the nicer forums I have ever been to.


We all do (make mistakes). But it does take a good man to say oops!
on Jul 18, 2006

I certainly didn't mean to offend or make you feel defensive Gid. I just made general responses to the overall issue. I've stayed away from the political forums for a long time and I guess I lost sight of better judgement and ventured back on.

No, I was more taken aback than anything. I didn't feel my message was being interpreted properly and couldn't figure out whether that was an error in the writing or the reading.

I didn't write this to liberals for two reasons: because I've written tons of articles criticizing the liberal position, and because, frankly, I've realized the futility of trying to bring them to an understanding of the proper approach. Ironically, one would think that conservatives would be more closed minded than liberals, but in my own personal experience, I have found liberals MUCH more likely to be so.

That's why I wrote what I did in the closing paragraph. I feel the conservative position to be FAR superior to the liberal one, and I find conservative approaches to poverty, when employed, to be more far sighted and practical. But when one is desperate (or perceives onesself to be so...but that's a topic for another article), they will turn to a bad solution if it meets their immediate needs rather than a good solution that doesn't, but meets their needs further down the road. It seems to me we need a combination of the two approaches: something that can meet the immediate needs while preparing people for long term success and self sufficiency.

on Jul 18, 2006
I DO feel that some conservatives are employing real, meningful approaches, Jill. I just feel there's a poor PR job advertising that fact on the national level. Perhaps it is beccause conservatives are less likely to brag about what they are doing than liberals are, but it has affected the PERCEPTION of who we are among the poor and "disenfranchised". Not the REALITY of who we are, just the perception. And because perception is so integral in who gets elected to public office, we'd be wise to pay attention to it.


Very telling statement, Gideon.
In as much as Liberal America does seem to focus more on the perception of caring and garners the reputation of such, regardless of the efficacy of their programs.
This can be seen when, upon enabling some new type of social program, they crow about 'solving' some social ill, before a dime has been spent or finger lifted.
2 Pages1 2