The journey from there to here

In my younger years, when I was new to Christianity, I was often startled by inconsistencies in my newly embraced faith. Conservative ministers would decry the sin of abortion, yet point a crooked finger at the pregnant "pouches" of young, unmarried women in their congregation. Many of these women would then compound the mistakes that led to their current condition with the greater mistake of abortion, feeling that if they hid their actions, they could escape judgment. I resolved early on that I would donate not to the organizations that protested abortion clinics, but to those that provided homes for these women and supported them through difficult times without overlooking the mistakes that put them where they were.

Conservatives in America have made great strides in the intervening years as we have realized that we CAN support unwed mothers throughout their pregnancies without overlooking the very real and pressing problems that brought them there in the first place. Virtually every community of size has homes for unwed mothers, and the tactics of the protestors are pretty much confined to the fringe elements.

We face a similar problem in our approach to poverty in America, and, it seems, far too many of us have not learned from the mistakes of the past. We have made great strides in reducing poverty in this country, yet we have not addressed the spiritual problems that are almost ubiquitous among their population. "Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach him to fish and he will eat for a lifetime" is our guiding motto, yet instead of teaching the poor to fish, too many conservatives are satisfied with waving the contents of their livewells in front of the poor and decrying the lack of ambition that left the poor man without a fish to eat. If we are to survive, and to work to reduce poverty, this attitude must drastically change.

There is a saying that "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king". This is self evident among the poor, where liberalism is the "one eyed man". Liberalism does not begin to address the core problems of poverty, meeting it instead with a "tax and spend" approach that robs from the rich to allegedly give to the poor. It is not even close to a perfect solution, and its flaws are so self evident as to make any attempt to enuertate them appear entirely superfluous. Yet a program of robbing from the "haves" to give to the "have nots" resonates deeply with a nation where the majority identify themselves more closely with the "have nots".

(NOTE: The following contains an edit from the original posting due to a typo. The edit is noted and the original can be found in response #17 of the replies):

Conservatives have done an excellent job of identifying the problems that lead to poverty in this country. Yet we have not even begun to identify viable solutions. And because people will almost inevitably choose a poor solution over no solution, they have turned to the inadequate and often short sighted approaches of the liberals because they offer something rather than nothing. Ironically, this should have been pretty clear to conservatives, who snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in the 2004 presidential elections when an unpopular president, leading the nation through an unpopular war, presented a (edit) strong (/edit) and concise plan for the next four years, while his opponent offered nothing but hollow rhetoric and strong personal attacks against his opponent. In fact, a perusal of the websites of the two candidates showed George W. Bush's name appearing more times on John Kerry's website than on his own.

For all the criticisms one can offer of American liberalism, it has, at least historically, employed the proper approach. At the core of American liberalism is a call to activism that conservatives would do well to envy. Liberals encourage volunteerism and personal commitment that are all but absent in far too many of the approaches of the conservative community. Indeed, even the parable of the fish illustrates the need for personal commitment; teaching a man to fish requires a far more intense and personal approach than giving a man a fish ever could. And it's a commitment we can't legislate, nor can we delegate. We must be willing to take on all the challenges of such a commitment ourselves if we are to make a permanent, meaningful impact on poverty in this country.

Real, meaningful approaches are there, but we are doing a remarkably poor jop of promoting them. We can find them in the actions of the Coalition for Urban Renewal and Education (Link ), which is working to address the very real needs of the inner city and which I discovered not through the writings of any conservative pundit, but rather through the coalition's own paid political advertisement advocating for the confirmation of Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. We can find them in the approach of Habitat for Humanity, an agency that requires commitment from those who benefit from its programs but from which conservatives sadly distance themselves because of the political affiliation of its leader, who has not held publicly elected political office in over a quarter century. We can find them in the effective approach of the welfare programs of the LDS church, but most conservative Christians will not concede the effectiveness of the program because they can't get past the doctrine of the church. And I am sure we can find them in many other places, yet a poor PR job leaves me hard pressed to say where.

As conservatives look to the future, we must face the uncomfortable but inescapable truth that, while a conservative outlook offers a far better prognosis for the future of the individual, if we do not address the immediate needs of the poor and needy, the liberal approach will offer far more appeal among those who need what we have to offer. After all, an empty stomach speaks far louder than the most vociferous politician.


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jul 15, 2006
This is a very interesting article. I will come back and leave a more detailed responce after I read this and digest it.
on Jul 15, 2006
"Conservatives have done an excellent job of identifying the problems that lead to poverty in this country. Yet we have not even begun to identify viable solutions. And because people will almost inevitably choose a poor solution over no solution, they have turned to the inadequate and often short sighted approaches of the liberals because they offer something rather than nothing."

Gid, I see this opinion as a result of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. The libs are very vocal about their "ideas" of how things should be. I know an enormous number of conservatives and people from "the right" who put their money and action where their mouth is. Instead of running their mouths like the libs you seem to be hailing, they are anonymously donating money, clothes, time in church groups and soup kitchens. They are taking care of their own friends and family members so they don't end up on the streets.

Ironically, the something (no matter how flawed) vs. nothing plan is exactly what got Bush where he is today. If the Dems do shape up, it will work in favor of the Republicans again. A litany of complaints is not a plan.

I'm sorry but I have to feel that you are way off base saying that "The Right" has to face hard truths. Society has to face it. We all have to face the fact that we can't rely on our government to feed our hungry and house our homeless. We can't run off to help the starving in Africa when we aren't taking care of our own parents, brothers, sisters and neighbors.

Taking from the haves and giving to the have nots has been proven time and again to backfire. The haves will resent working more for less. They give more and do more when it is in their control. They create jobs and donate more when it isn't taken away.

The truth that The Right has to face is that President Bush has not been a Republican when it comes to size of government. We need to get back to less government, more responsibility at the personal and community levels. Can anyone really honestly say that taking money from our citizens and giving it to the government to handle is the wise, efficient, beneficial thing to do?
on Jul 15, 2006
To JillUser:

Can anyone really honestly say that taking money from our citizens and giving it to the government to handle is the wise, efficient, beneficial thing to do?


This comment proves you to be a sensible woman. I've spent much of my time here being appalled at the way money is thrown at every social problem here, including the ones that proceed from previous injections of cash to address a given problem (single mothers living in poverty, say).

There are a great many single mothers in my neighborhood. They become serially pregnant in order to gain the welfare benefits that were intended to lift them out of poverty and become a springboard to an independent life. Their children have any number of 'baby-daddies' but no fathers, and they continue to be raised in filth and need not despite the benefits their mothers get but because of them. Such benefits allow single mothers complete freedom to spend as they wish - usually (at least, round here) on crack - and come with no requirement that they be spent on the purposes for which they were intended.

The solution is not more spending on another layer of bureacracy to provide oversight as to how mothers on welfare spend the benefits that they receive - but to withdraw the benefits. If the mother then proves incapable of rising to the challenge of caring for her children in such circumstances those children ought to be taken from her.

Equally, they should not then be fostered out to individuals who receive payments from the state for doing so, as is presently the case, since that system is also open to exactly the same kind of abuse - serial fostering for cash which is not used to benefit the children in question but on whatever it is the fosterer wishes to buy.

Plato advocated that all children be taken from their natural parents at birth to be raised in state institutions dedicated to raising well-educated, well-adapted, self-reliant and independent individuals able to live in and benefit the community at large. I wouldn't go that far, for the simple reason that such an idea would never be accepted in this society: it's too alien.

But certainly the children of incompetent parents should be removed from them and placed under the care of institutions that are not motivated by personal profit (which is where I get back to your comment proper).

Not all individual motivation is honest. Certain kinds of problem are not appropriate to be left solely in the hands of individual charity and enterprise. Some kinds of problem are best addressed by the community in which they occur, at a local rather than national or state level.

Individualism in such matters is usually not enough, what's required is localised but corporate action in which communities take responsibility for their own.
on Jul 15, 2006

Conservatives have done an excellent job of identifying the problems that lead to poverty in this country. Yet we have not even begun to identify viable solutions.

I think they have idientified viable solutions.  But they lack the will (Because it is tough love and therefore unpalatable) to implement them.

on Jul 15, 2006
The Liberal approach is more palatable to the masses because it basically consists of 'We will give you money so you don't have to worry about earning it on your own'.
The Conservative solution entails personal responsibility and work; something that is presently seen and presented by most of the media as hard-hearted or mean.
on Jul 16, 2006
The Liberal approach is more palatable to the masses because it basically consists of 'We will give you money so you don't have to worry about earning it on your own'.
The Conservative solution entails personal responsibility and work; something that is presently seen and presented by most of the media as hard-hearted or mean.


OR you might say that the Conservative approach only helps thoughs hhave already have the means to help themselves.

Just food for thought friends.

~Adam Milton
on Jul 16, 2006
OR you might say that the Conservative approach only helps thoughs hhave already have the means to help themselves.


OR Perhaps you should read the article first?
on Jul 16, 2006
Can anyone really honestly say that taking money from our citizens and giving it to the government to handle is the wise, efficient, beneficial thing to do?


I've never said that. In fact, I have said the opposite. If you read through, I actually come down pretty hard on the liberal position for doing just that. What i am saying is that most people, given a choice between the piss poor solutions of the left and the LACK of solutions of many on the right will choose the piss poor solutions every day of the week. It's sad, but it's true, and it's a timeless truth.

My article was addressed to the right for one reason. I've written dozens of articles addressing the left's position. I've lambasted them, and I've said many things about them. But so has just about everyone else on JU. It's about time we start addressing the right as well.
on Jul 16, 2006
OR Perhaps you should read the article first?


I have a feeling this article was read to the title and the first couple pargraphs. No offense to Jill or to emp, but judging from their responses either I did a VERY poor job of making my point, or comments were taken pretty widely out of context RE: This article. I'd like to think it's the latter, but I'm willing to concede the former.

I would suggest that it be reread, from beginning to end to understand it. This is not an article where a single sentence or paragraph can "stand alone". It was written as a unit, and should be read as a unit.
on Jul 16, 2006
No offense to Jill or to emp, but judging from their responses either I did a VERY poor job of making my point, or comments were taken pretty widely out of context RE: This article. I'd like to think it's the latter, but I'm willing to concede the former.


I addressed a lot more of what was said in your article than what you are addressing in my response. You took merely the final sentence of my lengthy response and left it at that. I read it, responded to it and stand by my response.
on Jul 16, 2006

Reply #7 By: Citizen Dr. Guy - 7/16/2006 3:02:28 PM
OR you might say that the Conservative approach only helps thoughs hhave already have the means to help themselves.


OR Perhaps you should read the article first?


I read the article, TWICE, my ill informed friend. I was simply giving another view point to what JillUser had said. Not a reply to the article as a whole.

Thank you.

~Adam Milton
on Jul 16, 2006
I read the article, TWICE, my ill informed friend. I was simply giving another view point to what JillUser had said. Not a reply to the article as a whole.

Thank you.

~Adam Milton


Hardly ill informed. But you did not address JillUser with your response, but another, and your response failed to take into account items in the article. Do not blame me for ignorance for pointing out your omissions from the original article.
on Jul 16, 2006
Only ill informed because you accused me of not read, when I had in fact read it twice.

I meant to reply to JillUser's responce only, not the article.

~Adam Milton
on Jul 16, 2006
I meant to reply to JillUser's responce only, not the article.


You weren't responding to my reply either. That was pictoratus your quoted and responded to.
on Jul 16, 2006
Plato advocated that all children be taken from their natural parents at birth to be raised in state institutions dedicated to raising well-educated, well-adapted, self-reliant and independent individuals able to live in and benefit the community at large. I wouldn't go that far, for the simple reason that such an idea would never be accepted in this society: it's too alien.


I don't know Emp. Many women put their kids in daycare at 6 weeks old for 8-10-12 hours a day five maybe six days a week....and leave them there until the kid is old enough to stay home on its own. That may not be exactly what Plato meant, but you add up all those hours and its closer than you think.
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