The journey from there to here
Published on March 22, 2006 By Gideon MacLeish In Current Events

There are a lot of religious topics I don't discuss publicly. There's a reason for it.

See, when I first logged onto the internet in 1997, I was like a kid in a candy store. Suddenly, my personally held religious beliefs didn't seem so marginal, as there was a message board and a chat room for just about everything (and more than a few things I'd rather not even think about).

The problem is, there was a bit of "culture shock" in my adjustment to the medium. I treated my new "friends" pretty much like I would my real life friends, discussing everything and anything...up to and including some pretty personal stuff. I was careful with things like where we lived, etc, but I felt so liberated by the new release that being candid with my beliefs seemed to bring me.

The problem is, I am at heart a social liberal, a fiscal conservative, and religiously VERY conservative. At the time, many of my newfound "friends" were hardcore democrats/socialists. I felt we had similar goals until I discussed my religious beliefs.

That's when I discovered that the intolerance I had encountered with my father, a hard leftist, was by no means unique. I encountered some extremely nasty attitudes when I discussed my personal religious beliefs, from individuals who had no business judging me. I found it ironic that the same flaming homosexual who would repeat "judge not lest ye be judged" out of context as a mantra to justify his behaviour would feel qualified to judge me and my beliefs. The thing is, I have always followed the Joshua line of "As for me and MY house, we will serve the Lord". I have never demanded anyone else do the same.

I'm increasingly adopting the belief that the chief reason the left finds the right so intolerant of their beliefs is because of their own intolerance. It's pretty hard, after all, to expect "tolerance" from a group whose ideas and values you consistently ridicule. I've had attempt after attempt of many of these liberals, for instance, to pile guilt on me because of the size of my family (7 of us), despite the fact that we consume about HALF the utilities of families of two in our own community due to being strict conservationists. And my beliefs on dating are ridiculed as being an anachronism despite the fact that the model we follow has been in place FAR LONGER than the western model so many in our society practice.

The fact is, I haven't found such consistent intolerance on the right. Sure, there are those who will look down on me because of my ratty jeans and long hair, but most of those people pretty much back down when they see that I am coherent, intelligent, and actually share some of their values.

I've learned a lot in my time online, namely, don't reveal anything that you would mind being used against you later, because in an online community, it always will. But more than anything, I've learned that the  individuals preaching loudest from the pulpit of "tolerance" know very little about it.


Comments
on Mar 22, 2006

I've learned a lot in my time online, namely, don't reveal anything that you would mind being used against you later, because in an online community, it always will. But more than anything, I've learned that the  individuals preaching loudest from the pulpit of "tolerance" know very little about it.

This is very true and wise.  But the true wisdom is when you realize that your past is part of you, and therefore it cannot be used against you.  In a recent blog, one person tried to insinuate that my article on my dating habits indicated why I was what I am today.  While in a general sense that is true, I do not mind the fact I was not a BMOC when I was growing up, and so if someone wants to nyah, nyah me on that, fine.  It shows their immaturity, but does not matter to me.

The only things I dont want to reveal involve my family. But I am not ashamed of who I was, or who I have become.

on Mar 22, 2006

Gid I think you probably described most people on the net who visit chat sights...from the feelings of "WOW I'm not alone" all the way to....WHY DID I SHARE THAT???

I am sorry you are treated so poorly by people you have some political ideas in common with.  I don't ever look from understanding from liberals (general here people not you specifically) because I was one once.  And as one I believed my ideas were educated, articulate and most of all right.  So why bother listening to other ideas, or having tolerance.  Was I supposed to tolerate stupidity?

Buwhahahha.

Yeah I throw up in my mouth a little every time I think about it.

I am not saying ALL leftys are like this, but I was never hurting for company when I was running with that pack.  And they often considered me the more moderate of the group.

For me, as I aged, had kids, my outlook on the world changed.  I fought it for a long time, but eventually I realized half the stuff I believed wasn't really what I believed.  And certainly wasn't how I chose to live.

Good article. 

on Mar 22, 2006
For me, as I aged, had kids, my outlook on the world changed.


In other words, you needed family values. People who aren't married and/or don't have kids don't need family values.
on Mar 22, 2006
In other words, you needed family values. People who aren't married and/or don't have kids don't need family values.


Yes that is it to a great extent, however, even before I had kids I started shifting more to the right. I was getting to experience in real life all those left ideas I picked up in college, and frankly, they weren't working for me.

Living right while believing left was like wearing high heels in a mud wrestling contest.

I was sure I looked good, but I could never get over the absurdity of it when stepping into the mud.
on Mar 22, 2006
It's protectionist. Like in academia, where a series of facts that may be true are held by the establishement. That establishment ALSO believes in x,y,and z that are complete guesses, but because they are authorites in the original facts, you have to be an adherant to x,y, and z to be a part of the clique. Evolution would be a good example.

The kind of people you are talking about don't just want to promote their core agenda, they want to clone themselves by making people swallow all of it if they swallow any at all. It's no different on the Right, and I'm sure there are folks in the Libertarian party that would, say, have a problem with someone who was all-the-way Libertarian except for, say, drug legalization gun control.
on Mar 22, 2006
Who was it that said....if you're not a liberal when you're young, you have no heart and if you're not a conservative when you are old you have no brain?

I find myself, as Tova, getting more and more conservative in my beliefs as I age. But I have always been fairly conservative to some degree as far back as I can remember.

I feel for the most part I am tolerant of others. It doesn't mean tho that I have to swallow what they're dishing out. Quit often I don't. I push back from that table. But I can respect their right to belive what they want as long as they don't involve me in the process by twisting my arm into accepting it.

It's not really about just tolerance anymore...it's about accepting anything and everything with open arms and pocketbooks. This is the new tolerance.

Oh and I have noticed that John 3:16 is not the most frequently recognized bible verse anymore. It's Matt 7:1 "Judge not lest you be judged." Too bad they stop there. The rest 2-5 tells the rest of the story.
on Mar 23, 2006
My idea's have shifted, more because I think I have learned more as I age, then I had as I was young, and now consider consequences more. I hope I also hold a better understanding of others now also. My only thing now is the usage of the bible to attempt to sway opinions. I'm a Christian, I know my bible well, but a lot of people aren't Christan's, I'm currently dating a Scientologist and bible arguments just don't work there. Ex was Atheist, didn't work there either.

By using religious arguments to sway votes and opinions, it makes it hard for people that don't follow the same religion to feel that they aren't being tolerated or even heard, and that also works vis versa. Both sides get more aggressive, and we end up with taking God out of state entirely, court battles, and on and on. It's turning into a point where the new tolerance is, If you don't agree with me, you don't tolerate me, CAUSE ONLY I CAN BE RIGHT! Grab up a pitchfork, make some more enemies and lets all see democracy crumble.

So whose morals are we supposed to follow anyhow? Separation of church and state doesn't mean much when moral arguments are bible based. But the Bible has some darn good points, problem is, when you use religion to fight you have to take the good quotes with the bad. Well, I'm of in my own little rant again so I had better stop now, Probably already stuck both feet in my mouth up to the knee anyhow