The journey from there to here

That's it! I need a radio talk show. These bozos just aren't doing their job.

A perfect example was brought forth yesterday on Michael Medved's talk show. He was talking about the issue of whether or not discrimination against homosexuality should be a crime, actually an interesting debate. A caller called in and made a major misstatement that Medved should have been all over. He referred to discrimination that occurs against the "Race" of homosexuals. I was laughing so hard at that comment I thought I'd have to pull over to the side of the road for a second. But Medved didn't address the comment at all.

You see, for all the arguments you can advance regarding whether homosexuality is a choice or genetic (I believe it is a choice...but further believe that we, as a nation, were founded on the principle of the rights of individuals to make choices....even those we consider to be stupid, as long as those choices are made by consenting adults...but I digress), one thing that it cannot EVER be considered, is a race.

You see, the major defining feature of a "race" is the ability to make progeny organically. By its very definition, homosexuals are unable to produce offspring from their relationship (you'd think, if genetic, that somehow evolution would have "found a way"...but I digress). Sure they can adopt, and this is not a diatribe against homosexual adoption. But they cannot produce any offspring. That's not bigotry, folks, that's biology talking.

What concerned me the most about this statement being left unchallenged is its implications. If we begin to view homosexuals as a race, then we will begin to view attitudes against homosexual behaviour to be racism. And that, I believe, was the full intent of the caller, and precisely why he should have been corrected as soon as the comment left his mouth.

You see, while I defend fully the rights of homosexuals to live their lives as they see fit, despite my own STRONGLY held views against such behaviour, I equally defend the rights of myself and others to speak out about what we feel to be morally irresponsible and sinful behaviour. And not only does equating homosexuality with race potentially impact MY rights, but it also diminishes the blood of the thousands of abolitionists and civil rights leaders that was shed on the soil of our country over many, many years.

And THAT, my friends, is a crime against humanity.


Comments (Page 2)
3 Pages1 2 3 
on Jan 13, 2006
Ok, here's my two sense. (Naturally.) I agree with Gideon that homosexuality is not a "race" mostly because I think what we call "race" is mostly culturally constructed.

As to the debate over genetic vs. choice. I know everyone's going to start screaming at me for a link I don't have but I believe the newest research gives some suggestion that homosexuality is genetic. Irregardless, my problem with the "choice" argument is I challenge any open-minded, scientifically curious heterosexual man to make a concerted effort to feel sexual attraction for another man, to the point of lust and not artistic appreciation ala classical sculpture. Go on, try it. See? Why would anyone choose to be a public outcast, to limit their human drive to procreate, to open themselves up to ridicule and condemnation?

Taken for all in all, I am very impressed with most of the responses here. Obviously several are from the more conservative faction but everyone seems willing to acknowledge the American ideal of personal freedom and protection for individual rights. Cheers!
on Jan 13, 2006
Homosexuals are not a race but they are a segment of society just like handicapped people.


Great, if homosexuals get classified a "handicap" how many laws will be passed to force the rest of us to alter how we do things to accomidate this "handicap". ;~D

My guess is, the only gay people who wouldn't be offended by your characterization would be those who see political advantages to being called "handicapped".
on Jan 13, 2006

See? Why would anyone choose to be a public outcast, to limit their human drive to procreate, to open themselves up to ridicule and condemnation?

That is a very weak argument. Pedophiles can (and DO) use the same argument. Zoophiles do as well. Now, let me be ABUNDANTLY clear that I am not equating homosexuality with bestiality or pedophilia. The former involves consenting adults and, as long as it is exercised in privacy, is absolutely none of my business personally. What I am saying, though, is this tired metaphor is the poorest excuse for homosexuality being genetically based, as people can and DO choose to be public outcasts, limit their human drive to procreate, and open themselves up to ridicule and condemnation on a regular basis.

I still FIRMLY believe homosexuality to be a choice. And you're not going to sway me from that opinion. I also firmly believe it to be morally reprehensible, and won't be swayed from that opinion either. But I am equally firm in my insistence that we should respect choices, however misguided, as long as those choices involve consenting adults.

on Jan 13, 2006

I know everyone's going to start screaming at me for a link I don't have but I believe the newest research gives some suggestion that homosexuality is genetic

No, actually that is one of the major theories right now, with strong support.  No link necessary.  But others do not agree with that theory, which is fine.  There is nothing wrong with accepting it in the absense of any deffinitive facts.

on Jan 13, 2006
A life of experience along with many encounters with gays and a few of my wife's gay colleagues tell me I am suppose to be more accepting of homosexuality. Sorry, but that just isn't going to happen. Accepting of the behavior....yes, but with hard limits that fall short of a race or marital acknowledgement amoung other limits. The best I can offer is legal partnership considerations.

Homosexually exists as a result of abnormal cell development during the birth process. Much the same as other abnormal cells develop causing various birth abnormalities. In light of the growing acceptance of aberrant behaviors across the board, more has to be done to bring the surge of questionable behaviors under control.

What's really troubling is society is faced with a shadow burden of all those that choose alternate lifestyles and cell abnormalities have nothing to do with their choice either. They're cause is hitching a ride on the concession of society's growing concern. Just look at the dramatic increase in women exploring their sexuality and determining it's easier to play lesbian verses the complexities of a heterosexual lifestyle. Further exampled by the media's increase in presenting the gay lifestyle in a variety of mediums even when the masses are not interested. We're being spoon fed a wide range of subculture behaviors by the media in general. I will use my resources to support my beliefs, not what the media thinks is acceptable!
on Jan 13, 2006
Gid.. I agree with you that homosexuality is not a race.

You know I am gay.

I dont agree with you though that it is a choice. I have NEVER been attracted to a woman sexually EVER. My earliest fantasies and im talking about dreamin at the age of 5 are of men. The idea of having sex with a woman repulses me, just as I am sure having sex with a man repulses you.

I am a man. I dont dress up in womans clothes, I dont go prancing around flaunting my sexuality. I am a man in all senses of the word other than I fall in love with other men and not women. I dont choose to do that, it is intrinsically what I am inside.

on Jan 14, 2006
Let them do as they like but don't equate a homosexual with "natural life". What they do is not natural and never will be.


Scientists have found many examples of homosexual actions outside homo sapiens sapiens. It's clearly natural. It's "unnatural" to us due to culture.
on Jan 14, 2006
Yes even I must laugh at this Homesexuals are a race comment.

And one Question if being Homosexual is a choice as some people believe then when did you make your choice? when did you sit down one day decide you was going to be str8? (have asked this question many times but as of yet no one has given a answer)

And one last thing why is it some people can believe in a supreme being (god) but can't believe gay people are born gay.

BTW I am gay.
on Jan 14, 2006
Pheonix, nottie...

I sincerely doubt either of you sat down one day and said, "wow, wouldn't it be cool to fall in love with other guys" and chose to go with it.

I didn't sit down and say, "wow, wouldn't it be cool to not see purple" or "green is such an ugly color in traffic lights, I think it should be the same color as manilla folders". I know that I am colorblind and left handed because of a gene. It isn't a choice, but I am still expected to live in a "normal" color seeing, right handed world. If I have trouble adapting it is MY problem, not society's.

I don't know if an attraction to the same sex is because of a gene or not. I also don't see where that matters. If you want to choose a homosexual lifestyle, that is up to you, however, homosexuals are no more entitled to demand society adapt to them as I am entitled to demand society adapt to me.

Imagine what our societies would be like if us colorblind folks demanded legislation banning use of color, just because we want to be treated as "normal". I know my colorblindness isn't "normal", I know that there are things I'll never be able to do because I am colorblind. Societies are based on standardization. When standards are set, some people are "left out". Do we do away with society, just to make sure no one is made to feel "abnormal"?

We did not choose the parts of who we are that seperate us from the "norm", but whether we adapt to that "norm" or try to demand the rest of society adapt to us IS our choice.

Pheonixboi, I do respect you. I am going through a lot of trials because of my condition, but mine doesn't hold a candle to what you are going through. In your pain, and (usually) private anguish, you still keep a great attitude towards life. So I hope you accept what I've said in the spirit of understanding it was meant.
on Jan 14, 2006
Hey there Para..

Imagine what our societies would be like if us colorblind folks demanded legislation banning use of color, just because we want to be treated as "normal".


The difference there is that you are not persecuted because your colourblind, you havent been beaten, tortured, spat on, murdered, harrased, abused, rejected by your family, your church, your friends.. all because you have colourblindness. Your colourblindness is respected as a difference in the "norm" of society in this age, maybe in the ancient past it wasnt and considered as a sin against humanity, but times change and so should the society, for example we no longer think we are the centre of the universe or that our planet is flat (well some still do).

Being gay is a part of who I am. I have NEVER gone out there and asked anyone to change anything because of my sexuality, I am just me and I just live life as anyone else does. I dont wear a banner on my head saying Im gay just like you dont wear a banner on ure head tellin people your colourblind. The quicker this society accepts the differences that make up our vast humanity the better we will learn to live with each other and be at peace.

Pheonixboi, I do respect you. I am going through a lot of trials because of my condition, but mine doesn't hold a candle to what you are going through. In your pain, and (usually) private anguish, you still keep a great attitude towards life. So I hope you accept what I've said in the spirit of understanding it was meant.


Sure I do! Just like Gids other post about debate, we might not agree but we can talk about it! LW is one of my closest mates, and you know as well as me what her views are on certain things yet we are really close. We all need to be like this.
on Jan 14, 2006

I dont agree with you though that it is a choice. I have NEVER been attracted to a woman sexually EVER. My earliest fantasies and im talking about dreamin at the age of 5 are of men. The idea of having sex with a woman repulses me, just as I am sure having sex with a man repulses you.

What about Bisexuality?  I am curious on your take as I dont really have an opinion (live and let live).

on Jan 14, 2006
You are 100% correct on this one. I wish you did have a radio show...We need some better talent on the airwaves. Glenn Beck is all we've got.
on Jan 15, 2006
The difference there is that you are not persecuted because your colourblind, you havent been beaten, tortured, spat on, murdered, harrased, abused, rejected by your family, your church, your friends.. all because you have colourblindness. Your colourblindness is respected as a difference in the "norm" of society in this age, maybe in the ancient past it wasnt and considered as a sin against humanity, but times change and so should the society, for example we no longer think we are the centre of the universe or that our planet is flat (well some still do).


Well, not to the same extent, but yes, I have been harrassed, mocked, treated like an idiot, or even a liar, denied jobs and training. Imagine trying to do most of what we do in public when you don't see many of the colors that are supposed to mean something to everyone. If you think colorblindness is "respected" think again. We are often treated like we are illiterate.

I don't bring it up as a means of equating my situation with yours, only as a means of demonstrating how we are all expected to exist in society, even if we don't quite fit.

You may never have asked others to change because of your homosexuality, but the activists demand it. They demand we accept their lifestyle choices to the point of criminalization. The irony is (or is it hypocrisy), they want to criminalize those of us who don't respect their lifestyle choices, but they refuse to respect our right to disagree with them. Apparently "respect" only has to go one way... but that is common among people demanding "minority" status.
on Jan 15, 2006
I dont agree with you though that it is a choice. I have NEVER been attracted to a woman sexually EVER. My earliest fantasies and im talking about dreamin at the age of 5 are of men. The idea of having sex with a woman repulses me, just as I am sure having sex with a man repulses you.


And we'll have to put that in the "agree to disagree" category. All I was saying in my response to Sarah was that the argument that homosexuality must be genetic because noone would choose to be ostracized by society is flawed (not to mention harmful, because it invites comparisons to other CHOSEN behaviour that is damaging).

Even though I believe strongly that it is a choice, I will always defend your right to MAKE that choice.
on Jan 15, 2006
Being gay is a part of who I am. I have NEVER gone out there and asked anyone to change anything because of my sexuality, I am just me and I just live life as anyone else does. I dont wear a banner on my head saying Im gay just like you dont wear a banner on ure head tellin people your colourblind. The quicker this society accepts the differences that make up our vast humanity the better we will learn to live with each other and be at peace.


See, and there is an area where we agree 100%, phoenix. Even if you believe that homosexuality is a choice, as I and certain others do, it does not give you the right to deny that choice to others, or to persecute them for making the choice, as long as it is a choice made between consenting adults (I HAVE seen a few homosexuals that do otherwise; though probably in the same proportions as I've seen heterosexuals that do otherwise).
3 Pages1 2 3