Can you say "innocent until PROVEN guility"?

Can you say, "way to make a jerky comment for no apparent reason"? Do you not know how to engage in a polite conversation? I asked a simple question to learn more information about looking at something from an angle that I had not previously considered. Unlike you, I enjoy the opportunity to broaden my horizons--you clearly know everything. I'm eagerly looking forward to the day that we can employ the ignore feature.

Simple. Information gained from tip lines is not admissible as evidence

Thanks for taking the time to explain that Gideon. I think I am inclined to agree with TW, that it is not so much the anonymous reporting that is the problem, but rather what the authorities are doing with that tip. I firmly believe that CPS has the ability to investigate tips without violating anyone's constitutional rights--though I don't doubt you when you say that they haven't been held to those standards.

As for the ability to face your accuser--I believe that child abuse, like domestic assault, your accuser is technically the state. Therefore, you face the prosecution in the courtroom and that falls, legally, within the constitution. I could be wrong about this holding over in child abuse cases, but I do know that in domestic violence cases the survivor (I so hate the word victim) can not "drop" the charges--the charges are filed by the state and the survivor has no say in whether or not the state proceeds with the case. Of course, all of this is null and void if you are never afforded the right to a trial.

I fear that eliminating the anonymous line may put some children in danger. There is definitely a mentality out there that says that it is easier and safer to keep your mouth shut than to put your neck on the line. Granted, it's a sad state of affairs when you are dealing with children, but it does happen.

I've found your series on CPS to be very interesting. I've never been on the other side, but I have been charged with contacting CPS several times when I was a child care provider (the state I worked in required us, by law, to report any suspicions immediately). I would have been more than willing to provide my name, but I was never asked for it.

Frankly, shadesofgrey, I don't think you have much perspective on the system. In Kentucky the CPS can get a tip, go interview your child with no warning or permission IN SCHOOL, and take the child into custody without you knowing ANYTHING about it.

Then your child is held indefinately until they decide whether to give it back or not. You can't dispute this, because it was done to people who live near me. The tip ended up being totally bogus, and the child was returned a the next day.

What was that night like for the parents and the child? The parents went to school to pick up their child and found it had been taken. The child has been harmed, the parents have been harmed. REALLY harmed, based upon anonymous 'tips' from what ended up being a disgruntled co-worker. The child was snatched by the state just as if it were snatched by a kidnapper.

Kids die in the care of CPS. Kids are abused in the care of the CPS. The practice needs to be completely dissolved everywhere, and the justice system should return to handling crimes against children.

Frankly, shadesofgrey, I don't think you have much perspective on the system

Frankly Bakerstreet, I never implied I did--hence my questions. Again, in your example, I don't see that the tip is the problem, but rather what CPS does with that tip. Please notice in my last response that I don't doubt anything that has been stated--I just don't think that completely scrapping the program is the best response.

What exactly do you propose they do with a tip, then? If you think there's a fair way to do it, what's your take?

What exactly do you propose they do with a tip, then? If you think there's a fair way to do it, what's your take?

I believe that based on the tip, they can investigate, like they do any crime. Obviously they will need to be very careful in doing so, but they can interview teachers, neighbors, and other children (with their parents' permission) in order to gather evidence--that is how the criminal justice system works.

For example, if I see a guy stab someone, I can call 911 and tell them about it without giving my name. They go to the scene and interview other people nearby and look for clues. Child abuse cases should be handled in a similar manner. I have a student come to class with what appears to be cigarette burns on their body, I call CPS. They then begin collecting evidence through legal means--talking to teachers, school bus drivers, neighbors, doing whatever they can do, within the law, to secure a court-sanctioned removal.

I do not doubt that it is a very difficult balance to protect the child and the family at the same time--I just believe that the balancing act can be successfully achieved (though I have no doubt that it would be difficult).

I don't disagree that the system needs serious re-vamping.

No, in the real system the investigation comes before the trial, and the investigation comes to NO CONCLUSION about your guilt or innocence. They only decide if there is enough evidence to take you to court to be tried.

In terms of CPS the investigation IS the trial, and often the punishment for the guilty and innocent. Once the child has been removed, or given the third degree, the damage is done. McCarthy-esqe "investigators" talking to your neighbors and friends often paints you an abuser whether you are or not.

They SURE AS HELL don't go back and tell the people they interviewed that it was baseless.


In the legitimate justice system, all those interviews would eventually lead to people having to appear in court and giving testamony to what they witnessed. CPS has the authority to victimize people based on hearsay, and that is unconstitutional and wrong.

They use McCarthy era justice, and need to be shut down permanenty in favor of the real justice system. We don't need a socialist thug squad hanging over our kids heads like the sword of Damocles.