The journey from there to here
Published on December 29, 2007 By Gideon MacLeish In Misc

I got really pissed off in a conversation yesterday. Seriously, genuinely and truly pissed. And the conversation is such a perfect illustration of why I do not like the welfare mentality that pervades so much of the American left.

I was talking with a couple in town who are chronically out of work. Not chronically out of work because of the job market, mind you, but chronically out of work because, frankly, they don't want to work.

In the three years I have been here, it has been a continual cycle. He'll get a job. She'll get a job. At first, everything's wine and roses, but after two or three months, they start missing work. Chronically. To the tune of a 40-50% absentee rate. If you can't figure out what happens next, well, you haven't been in the job market very long. They both end up out of work, and will usually sit around the house without a job until they simply do not have any money left.

They cannot keep a car on the road because, well, they have no money. They've pretty much lived off of the kindness of strangers the entire time I've known them. And, while they're pretty much universally frustrated with the mentality, they help out, becase, frankly, nobody wants to see them starve.

They're in a down cycle right now. She just got let go from the fast food restaurant where she worked, and he's finding every excuse not to work. I was visiting with them yesterday and he began complaining about how "the government needs to" do this, and "the government needs to" do that. He believes the government should set prices for all grocery commodities and you pay the government set price. He believes that gasoline and oil should be regulated. He believes that a manager of a business should make less than the stockboy because "the stockboy does all the work" (not realizing that, without marketing the goods, you can stock all you want and they don't get sold because NOBODY COMES IN). In other words, he pretty much believes the government should subsidize his laziness.

Now this was where I blew a stack. Classic grasshopper and ant story here, really. During the past three years, while he has held at least four jobs, and she has held at least six, I've been busting my hump trying to make things better. I've finished my associates and pretty much tried to make a gradually better living. And this guy expects the government to step in and level the playing field so that he doesn't have to make any sacrifices to get ahead?

The further along I get in life, the more I come to truly resent people who believe they are OWED a percentage of my paycheck. Sure, I'm more than happy to help someone who's truly down and out, but you know what? The people who have genuinely fallen on hard times aren't the ones coming up to me and begging for "fairness". They usually just want opportunity, and they should be given opportunity.

Call me lacking in compassion, call me mean, call me anything you want, but I do not believe the world OWES us anything. Not one of us. Heck, if it weren't for a few choice picks out of Darwin's grab bag, we'd be flinging feces at each other and picking lice out of our hair. Just to have the opportunities we do in the Western world is something we should be grateful for, not something that should make us want to beg for more.

You can walk into any third world nation and find people who are DESERVING of opportunity, who would WELCOME the chance to live to a standard equal to even the poorest of America's poor. These people are impoverished by circumstances beyond their control, and if there's anyone we should help, it should be THEM.

As I look at my surroundings, I see three desktop computers, not one of them less than four years old. No dual core on my desktop machines. I have a new laptop, true enough, but it's anything but a top of the line model. My TV is 13 inches in diameter, my DVD player was a $40 special, my car is 8 years old, and I haven't got a single pair of jeans that was manufactured during the Bush administration. But I have it pretty danged good. As an adult, when these circumstances were in MY control, I have never gone hungry a single day, never been homeless, and never had a single utility cutoff. With the exception of one two week period in 93 and one six week period in 2004, I have never been unable to find regular, steady employment, and most of that time I've had a running vehicle.

The thing is, though, I know exactly what I need to do to have it better. And I intend to do it, not ask my representatives in Washington steal money from someone else so I can realize the American dream! And the people who want THEIR success to be funded by MY labor...can kiss my rosy red (PG thread censored word!)


Comments (Page 1)
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on Dec 30, 2007

Gid, if you lived in my neck of the woods, you'd see the sort of people you are writing about here every since day.  Not just a couple here or there, but tens, if not hundreds, of such couples, and hundreds of individuals with the same attitude and expectation.

D.C. and the surrounding suburbs, as well as Baltimore and the areas around same, are filled with such people.  Southern Maryland is filled to the gills with the same too.

Enough to drive me crazy.  Exactly the kind of people we were discussing, not long back, with kids that hadn't gotten the immunizations that they were supposed to have gotten.  People that expect that gub'ment to do this, and gub'ment to do that.

I gave up on the hope that such people would ever truly be changed.  A few along the way may decide that they can lift themselves out of their situation and make a better life for themselves, and perhaps make the world a better place, but the few that do are just that -- few.  Most just don't care to work at anything and it truly disgusts me.

on Dec 30, 2007
Gid, if you lived in my neck of the woods, you'd see the sort of people you are writing about here every since day. Not just a couple here or there, but tens, if not hundreds, of such couples, and hundreds of individuals with the same attitude and expectation.


I don't have to live in your neck of the woods to see them, terp, I've seen them everywhere. This is a major part of the reason I want to see welfare eliminated and private charities take responsibility for the poor because private charities have a better opportunity to spot the fraudsters.

One other thing: these people REFUSE to use the local food banks because they don't like the churches in question. They REFUSE to use programs like Angel Food Ministries. They literally believe the government owes them a living. And they are far more typical than people think.

Unfortunately, the people who really DO need help often get left out in the cold (sometimes literally) because of people like this.
on Dec 30, 2007

Unfortunately, the people who really DO need help often get left out in the cold (sometimes literally) because of people like this.

That is the saddest part of this to me.  I have no problem giving a hand-up to someone, but I despise hand-outs mostly because I believe that almost everyone has something to contribute if they try.  The people that don't try seem to be missing that part about 'God helps those that help themselves...'

on Dec 30, 2007
Either way, what a sad state our generation has sunk to. What a sad state that is shared with other countries.


What cracks me up is people like this want pure socialism, and they will be the first to bitch when hooked to a socialist yoke. I'm reasonably confident I could be marginally successful in any economy (it's about adaptation, folks), and that these people would resent me even more!
on Dec 31, 2007

While I was visiting for Christmas, I actually talked with my parents on this very subject, the whole idea that everything is owed, that nothing should be earned.  And while it's a very sad state of affairs, I came to a realization...

We have all of these wellfare folks, all these people whose parents have saved them from every consequence of their decisions/actions.  All sorts of people who are never at fault and never want to work more than 39.5hrs a week etc.  While that sucks and these people are a drain... they're our competition in the job market.  They're making us more valuable, more in-demand.  When we go up against them in an interview, we win out.

Their loss, our gain.

on Dec 31, 2007

I have been following your progress for the last 3+ years, and to say the least I am very impressed with what you have accomplished!  It is truly the makings of the American dream.  I understand your frustration.  Like you, I have had a couple of occassions of unemployment in the last 18 years.  Mine lasted a little longer, but I learned a lot on how to get a job, and how to get a job you enjoyed.

But I see others that have had the same experience that have learned nothing from their experiences, and will whine (not the same as your example, but another version of the victim story).  Your story is an inspiration for anyone who truly wants to suceed, and is not born a Hilton.

Well done.

on Dec 31, 2007
Good article Gid, my hat's off to your success. I am not sure your topic is a welfare mentality issue or a character issue and as such, it is certainly not a left or right issue. I know a lot of folks on the left who, like you, bemoan the condition of America's educational system, work ethic, and value base. Most of those on the left I know are highly educated and respect hard work. On the other hand, I've met some pretty dumb (i.e., dichotomous thinkers) people on the right who feel entitlement only applies to them and not those shiftless good-for-nothing others.


See ya!
on Dec 31, 2007

Well Gideon, I largely agree with a lot of what you have to say- I guess where we differ is here:

"Call me lacking in compassion, call me mean, call me anything you want, but I do not believe the world OWES us anything"

You are right, the world doesn't owe us anything. But we are our brothers keeper and it is in the herds best interest to look out for each other...really we are a herd if you think about it, easily led too! I do not believe that people who are otherwise sound of mind and body should be able to do nothing and have everything provided for them. However, I do believe that we should aim to build a society that provides the greatest chances for the largest number of people to succeed. No matter what kind of society we live in there will always be some people who choose to do nothing at all, but I believe these folks fall into a relative minority. The average joe just wants to have a decent life, a fulfilling job and maybe a cold brew to come home to at the end of the day. For me, we should be trying to build our society with the average joe in mind as this is hopefully the largest sector of society (the middle class) These are not the folks we need to be worrying about living off of welfare indefinitely on.

In regards to the rampant ownership of multiple big screen plasma TV's, this is indeed worrisome. However I do think this is more a spiritual issue than economic or social. Now hear me out on this one... I believe that the real religion of north america is no longer practiced in churches. Our place of worship is the shopping mall, and we pray with our wallets and credit cards to the Gods of commerce. This is why people are buying brand new F-350's and top of the line PC's when they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt... because, at the core, people are empty. We have been raised since birth to believe that "quality of life" is determined by the amount of stuff we own! Never mind the fact that most of the stuff we now buy at artificially low prices because it is cheaply mass produced overseas and will probably break down or fall apart within a few years so that you can buy yet more stuff (I-pods are intentionally designed to only last a year or two) So, we have been told that what will make us happy and determine our place in the order of things is to own as much stuff as possible. So that's what we do. And let's be honest, going out and buying a shiny new whatever also makes us feel good inside. Conceptually, this is similar to the good feeling a person gets who is addicted to anything else- gambling, alcohol, drugs (legal or no) food. So in my opinion, people will always try to live beyond their means because it's in our nature to do so, but the materialistic society we live in is largely responsible for amplifying our natural stupidity to do this!

For me, the important things are being able to go to a doctor when you fall ill without worrying about taking out a second mortgage to pay the bill... or fretting over whether or not your HMO will deny your care because it will cost them too much and they cancel your policy by claiming you had a pre-existing condition you didn't disclose! When it comes to taking a portion of everyone's paycheck to pay for other people, no I DO NOT WANT my money to go to some lazy bum who's perfectly capable of working but doesn't want to. However, we should try to build a world in which there are some universally provided services, in which everyone can benefit. These things are:

universal healthcare

universal education

basic sanitation and utilities (access to clean water, electricity and heating, etc)

basic food and shelter

For me, these things are human rights, not luxuries or priviledges. Yes, some will always abuse the system but I do not believe the majority will. If these systems are implemented poorly then yes, you will get the welfare mentality you've elaborated on, but once again this is a problem with implementation which can be fixed. Hopefully we've evolved from our simian ancestors, or if not we should aspire to evolve. And then one day we'll invent replicator technology and all our problems will be solved That, or microsoft would patent it and make people pay through the nose!

on Dec 31, 2007
I agree on sanitation and utilities, and on basic food and shelter. No disagreement there. No matter how much I disagree with someone's lifestyle, I refuse to knowingly allow anyone I know to go hungry or without food and shelter. And that is not because of any religious belief, but because of basic humanity.

I disagree with universal education simply because you cannot MAKE a person learn. Now, universal ACCESS to education I can agree with, and I readily agree that education is one of the wisest investments that a nation can make in its future. But, in this country at least, we have an extensive public library system and literacy programs in any community of size, there is honestly NO reason that anyone so inclined cannot educate themselves to a level of competence, if not mastery. And there is ample financial aid money available to allow someone to be able to earn a decent college degree if they want to do so.

As for universal health care, I disagree totally. I agree the American system is flawed, but I see flaws in every system, and I don't think trading a broken system for a broken system is the answer. I'm actually working on a proposal that would make health care universally AVAILABLE without a massive tax burden, but it's an extensive project and I still have a lot of work to do on it. I believe a free market health care system AND health care for our poorest citizens CAN peacefully coexist, and it's an issue I don't think anyone should ignore (I'll see if I can dredge up my article on subjects Libertarians should not ignore and bump it so that I don't have to revisit topics I've already covered).
on Dec 31, 2007

But we are our brothers keeper and it is in the herds best interest to look out for each other...really we are a herd if you think about it, easily led too!

I don't agree with this premise.

Moreover, I certainly don't agree that the means to do this is the federal government.

on Dec 31, 2007
Yes, some will always abuse the system but I do not believe the majority will.


By the way, empirical evidence on my part indicates the majority actually will abuse the system.

One of the reasons I advocate microsocialism over macrosocialism is that in a smaller organization based on communalist principles, fraud can be policed more readily. And because microsocialism is a VOLUNTARY arrangement, fraudsters can be evicted.
on Dec 31, 2007
Gid,
Good article, you should brief this at the next DNC. The conversation you talk about wasn’t with Little-Whip and EOIC by chance was it?
on Dec 31, 2007
The conversation you talk about wasn’t with Little-Whip and EOIC by chance was it?


No, actually, I've never heard either of them profess the idea that anyone owes them. Quite the opposite, actually. And, as a computer guy, I can tell you consultants are chronically out of work not because they want to be, but because it all runs in cycles. And as far as LW goes, while I do not have R/A, I have known people who have, and I know it is extremely painful and unpredictable. It DEFINITELY qualifies as a disability.

I don't know why their existence poses such a threat to you, though.
on Dec 31, 2007

The conversation you talk about wasn’t with Little-Whip and EOIC by chance was it?

Those two would be the last to be expecting handouts...

on Jan 02, 2008
I refuse to knowingly allow anyone I know to go hungry or without food and shelter.


That is the key difference. YOU would not knowingly. Not Hillary. Not Barak, not Fred or Mitt. YOU. And that is where it should be. Not with some faceless bureaucracy that does not allow YOU (or me or anyone else) to exercise their humanity.

As for health care? We already have that. In some places by legislation. In the US by default. However, what people want is not basic health care, but the steve Austin treatment. Yes, we have the capabilty to "make him better". And it will cost (with inflation far more) $6 million. For an individual. But not for everyone. So how do we allocate this great saving grace? Yes, we can prolong someone's life almost indefinitely. At a cost. And who decides what cost is acceptable?

We have already reached that stage in the countries that have socialized medicine. They are refusing to treat people that lead abusive lifestyles. Heartless? hardly. Just a recognition that there is a fixed amount of resources and an unlimited demand. SO they make the decisions too, but on an arbitrary basis. That is not saying the arbitrariness is vindictive or mean, just necessary. Socialized medicine would not offer anything that the US does not already have, except an extra layer of bureaucracy that must be paid for. Yes, HMOs decide a lot of things. WIth Socialized medicine, some incompetant bureaucrat would. The difference? With our current system, the patient does have a recourse. It is the courts. With a bureaucracy, there would be none. Governments cannot be sued.

We have basic health care here. And we do charge for it. But the dirty secret is that those who cannot pay dont. Sure some have to take out a second mortgage. But we hear about those because they are the exception. Others pay it off a little at a time. And some never do.

But what we dont have, and what no system has, is access to UNLIMITED health care. And for all the rhetoric that we hear the politicians spouting, that is what they are really demanding. They want that $250,000 operation for ALL people, regardless of the ability to pay. Yet we do not have the resources to give that to everyone. No country does.

So today, it is a heartless HMO that says no in the US. In other countries it is just a faceless bureaucrat. Does it really matter who says no? Or just that the answer is no. Because regardless of the system, NO is going to be the operative word.
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