The journey from there to here

I am definitely what is known as an evangelical Christian. Rather fundamentalist, too. But I long ago rejected the proselytization that too often typifies other evangelical, fundamentalist Christians as basically futile.

While I have no problem educating someone about the truth, I'm very careful with what I do and do not contest. If you stated, for instance, that the bible said that God was a pink blob of goo that would descend on the earth in 2006 and devour the population, I'd have to contest that, not on the basis of your faith, but on the basis that this particular theology was endorsed by the Bible. Disputing opinions presented as fact is one thing, disputing personal theology is quite another entirely.

The truth is, even within the context of those who accept the Bible as the infallible, inspired word of God, there still are a LOT of different interpretations. My belief is that none of these interpretations is wholly right (but I must note that few are  wholly wrong in my opinion as well), but that the confusion comes about because we interject our own prejudices into our reading of scripture.

Let's use a novel for comparison. Unless the writer explicitly describes a character's physical characteristics, you make a mental picture based on those prejudices. If you were asked to draw a picture of a particular character, your picture would be based on those preferences. Similarly, motivations for characters are often based on what would motivate YOU in those particular circumstances, to act as they did (or, in the case of a villain, what you perceive would motivate others). There are many factors that shape this opinion, life experience being one of the countless variables.

The contemporary image of Jesus, for instance, is usually one of a kindly hippy because we WANT Jesus to be a kindly hippy. Yet would such a kindly hippy act so violently in the face of the money changers and frighten the local government so much that they sent a large number of soldiers to arrest Jesus? A more likely image of Jesus would be a fairly homely man with an intimidating physical presence. And yet, many doctrines are based on the more usual presentation of Jesus' physical appearance.

But while that's what I hold true, and what I would submit as food for thought, it's not important enough to build a doctrine around. Frankly, I believe that if God WANTED us to know exactly what Jesus looked like, He would be more than capable of doing so. The fact that He did not tells me that it's not as important as we make it.

The heated debates about whether gifts are for today or not, or about the literal or figurative interpretation of this or that verse, drive people AWAY from Christianity, because of the obvious: if WE can't form any sort of agreement, what business do we have teaching THEM?

And so I submit that, while it is important to educate people as to the basis for our faiths, it is useless, and even damaging to our witnesses as Christians to argue them vehemently with other Christians. What matters more to anyone who is even REMOTELY evangelical: the manner in which someone was saved, or the fact that they were?


Comments (Page 2)
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on Feb 17, 2006
P.S. Before anyone jumps on me for being snippy, consider what Ziggystyles is saying. He's saying that since I don't believe that paper and ink is perfect, I "lack faith in God". He's saying that I am accusing God of being imperfect.

You see how this works? This is the kind of thing that perpetuates hatefulness. It doesn't matter that the Native Americans and Chinese and Japanese and South Americans and the rest lived without this "perfect rulebook" for 1500 years. They can live without what CHristians thrive on for a bit, so long as the WASPs have it. After all, "God isn't on a time schedule..."

We can quietly skip over the fact that we are implying that God is racist or really, really negligent in terms of distributing his product. Question our idol, though, and you are slamming God and you just don't have enough faith to understand.

So before anyone jumps me for being insulting to ziggy, please notice that in order for me to believe that the Bible contains flaws I have to accept that I don't have as much faith as ziggy, and that I am in fact undermining God's perfection. Question the great and powerful Oz, and be damned.

My God is big enough to question. Truth is something you can't harm by poking and prodding and questioning. People who have to protect their faith by imposing sins of faithlessness and blasphemy on people who question it aren't very secure in it, imho.
on Feb 18, 2006
I personally believe that God, being as totally kick ass powerful as he is; if he wanted us to read something, he would make sure we read it the way he intended it to. If we are told God is true, yet his written word is not, then how can God be perfect?

God is perfect for me. When I read passages in the bible, the words are paraphrased. My God gave me the ability to critically think, weaknesses, and if desired, morals, values and ideals, which also means, I am flawed founded on choice.

What I find delightfully curious are those folks that float from one religious perspective to another until they encounter a view that meets their lifestyle needs. Not unlike those that are agnostic, atheist or a liberal, to each their own flaws founded on choice.

I'm saying the the Bible ISN'T authored by God, so you can't hang the mistakes on Him. That doesn't mean you can't get wisdom and guidance from it, it just means it isn't some golden calf to ask questions and get magical answers from.

I agree. Being born and baptised into the catholic world and with critical thought, (not normal for a catholic) my God is distinct from of my analysis making him perfect. I am not, and since humans with flaws wrote the book(s), no doubt it's going to vary, and more importantly, evolve with each interpretation through out time.

Truth is something you can't harm by poking and prodding and questioning.

No one can impose truth, because truth is owned or rejected by critical thinking and the ability to believe.



on Feb 18, 2006
Sure, one might say it is faith...then faith it is. Many people doubt and don't put faith in God, but they unknowingly put faith in everything else in their lives.


Here's a question to ask an ice fisherman. "Would you rather put a lot of faith in two inches of ice or a little faith in two feet of ice?"

See I don't think it matters how much faith you have at all. It's more in the object of your faith that matters.

A little faith in the right thing is going to hold you up. But a whole lot of faith in the wrong thing will do nothing for you.
on Feb 18, 2006
I am happy that many people don't put faith in God. It is possible they will have a happier life and a more conservational lifestyle by not putting their energy into someting that is only a concept, a thought, an idea. Also happy that they spend their money on things that are more practicle than sending it to Church. Unless of course they get a value of entertainment or therapy from the event. As a social event, it is in many cases more healthy than staying at home.

Fox:

"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your common sense." Buddha

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He"s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can"t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
G. Calin

on Feb 18, 2006
If anyone wants the lowdown on foxjazz, go check out HIS articles in the religion section, and the way he defends them.
on Feb 28, 2006

If anyone wants the lowdown on foxjazz, go check out HIS articles in the religion section, and the way he defends them.

I saw.  Very self centered.  But that is his right.

on Feb 28, 2006
What matters more to anyone who is even REMOTELY evangelical: the manner in which someone was saved, or the fact that they were?

Isn't this like asking what matters more anyone who is even remotely scientific: the manner in which men first walked on the moon, or the fact that men walked on the moon?

The answer, of course, is that they're two sides of the same coin, and you can't really appreciate the the one without understanding the other.

The fact of the Apollo Project is important because of the manner in which it was accomplished. And understanding the manner in which it was accomplished is vital to belief in--and appreciation of--the fact of the accomplishment.

So it is with salvation. It matters very much to me, as an Evangelical Christian, the manner in which a Buddhist was "saved"--without understanding that, how can I agree on the "fact" of it?


Apologetics also has the advantage of establishing a more rigorous and responsible approach to the theology. It's the means by which we believe not blindly and unquestioningly, but thoughtfully and critically, by reasoning through the evidence available to us, and arriving and sensible conclusions about what might fit in the gaps of that evidence.

Apologetics is how we arrive at a reasonable faith, and not just an emotional one.
on Feb 28, 2006
Apologetics also has the advantage of establishing a more rigorous and responsible approach to the theology. It's the means by which we believe not blindly and unquestioningly, but thoughtfully and critically, by reasoning through the evidence available to us, and arriving and sensible conclusions about what might fit in the gaps of that evidence.

Apologetics is how we arrive at a reasonable faith, and not just an emotional one.


sounds right to me.....

who was it that said...It's not about what we feel but all about what Jesus said?
on Mar 01, 2006
Apologetics, though, don't often attack the Bible, rather they work to prop it up whenever possible. If literalists worked day and night to knock holes in it and couldn't, it might make more sense, but the premise they seek to prove is unprovable, i.e. that God worked for thousands of years through people to bring about a book that never made the claim of infallibility.

Until you can prove that, you can't prove the infallibility of the Bible. Good luck with that, given so far no one has even proven the existence of God.
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